power windows

[bassman8604]

hey guys i got a q for a friend of mine
he has a problem with his power windows in which at times they seem to lose power. meaning they somtimes do not go up all the way and he has to wait a few seconds and then push the window buttom again in hopes that it will go up all the way. so does anyway have any explanation to this problem.

[Matt95GT]

Motor is on the way out.

[photogirl12]

My 1998 Grand Am is the same way. My front passenger one has completely stopped working and I think the driver side is on the way out too!

[MantaGreen97]

Yeah if the motor actually works, but it stops and then you have to wait and it works again later, I'm pretty sure the motor itself is still good but it's just the built in PTC that is messed up.

It happened to my passenger side motor a while back (changed it since) and I didn't really get why if the motor was bad it would actually appear to work fine sometimes and then not at all other times.

Unfortnately it doesn't matter if it's actually the motor or the PTC, you still have to replace the entire motor to fix the problem. It isn't too hard, I thought there was a writeup here to do it, if not I still have my pics (from a rather crappy digital camera though) from back when I did mine. I could do a writeup I suppose, if there isn't one...

[Rockfan1815]

my passenger window does the same thing, sucks when it starts raining and the window wont go up.

[DSMMAN]

Originally posted by Rockfan1815
my passenger window does the same thing, sucks when it starts raining and the window wont go up.

I agree, seeing it rains daily here, I left mine up untill I got the motor. I just replaced it a few weeks ago. I was having the same problems as everyone listed here.

[Rockfan1815]

i always tell the person sitting in my passenger seat not to put it down more that 4 or 5 inches incase it doesn't go back up all the way, my window wouldn't be down and open to theives.

[rixGAphx]

The GA's power windows are finnicky, and so are the windows of many other cars.

Some have a 'thermal interlock' to prevent the motor from overheating/dieing, and others have a microprocessor-based tachometer (that counts the rpm's) for the same reason.
More important than trying to save the motor, these devices are attempts to save kids' lives:
The motor might be overheating or going slowly (stopped, actually) 'cuz little Suzy's neck is stuck in the window as it's being raised by naughty Billy holding the switch for 'up'.

Or somebody might have accidentally layed a package on the switch in the 'up' position, and it's been there for the last half-hour of running around town.

Anyhow, if the window motor is overheating/slow for OTHER reasons, like corroded wiring or rusty mechanism or lots of friction in the tracks, then these same protective features shut the system down.

So, service the power window SYSTEMS to make them as free of excessive electrical resistance and friction as possible:

There was a significant change in the GA power windows in '99; the old-style were 'scissors-action', the 99+ are a kinda ’rolling plastic chain’ mechanism.

Service:
1. Remove door handle panel (two phillips-head screws in the bottom of the 'hand grip'), and twist aside.
2. Unplug and replug the connector from the window switch(es). The pins corrode and get 'gunky', so they need to be cleaned for EXCELLENT contact (when the window is partly-open, roof drainage water drips right onto the switches, and corrodes the pins and such). Mebbe even clean the contacts with toothpicks, or a metal dental pick. Use a little household rubbing alcohol and cotton Q-tips to dissolve the gunk.
This alone may give you enough power to solve the problem.
3. Lube the vertical tracks, using spray silicone (don't use WD-40, oil, or grease). This will provide long-term lubrication yet won't smear when you wash the window like petroleum products will.

The above steps may reduce the resistance enough to solve the problem, and you can stop right here if things work well.
Otherwise, continue:
4. Now for the tough stuff, inside the door:
5. Remove the door panel (careful of the screw behind the reflector), and use a special 'trim removal tool' to pop the plastic fasteners loose. You'll *prolly* break a few, but replacements are available for a couple $$ in the HELP! section of Checker/AutoZone/etc.
Also be EXTREMELY careful of the mechanical side-view mirror adjustment knob!!. The little plastic grommet canNOT be removed, it just BREAKS!!! Every Pontiac dealer body shop has a box of these little f'ers under the counter, about $3 each (I buy 2 each time, 'cuz I'm clumsy :D ).
You can prevent breakage: With the door open, you can kinda rotate/pivot the panel onto the outside of the roof/windshield so it's out of the way, with the cable still attached. Tape the panel in place.
6. Remove the plastic weather barrier; it must be reinstalled, so try not to tear it.
7. With the window up, look at the operating mechanism:
* Pre-‘99 were 'scissors' mechanism. Lots of things that slide and roll and rotate, and many prolly have rust.
* ‘99+ are a kind of ’rolling plastic chain’ mechanism with fewer parts that move or rust. They also have the infamous 'plastic clips' at the bottom that break easily (replacements also available from the 'HELP!' section).

Use Naval Jelly to dissolve the rust, then rinse and allow to dry. You may have to sand/steel wool some items.
This mechanism is never gonna look pretty; your goal is simply to lube the things that move.
Apply moly-based wheel bearing grease to the horizontal tracks, and every other moving thing you can.
Apply heavy oil (engine oil, like 10W30) to all the rollers and pivots that you couldn't grease (don't use light machine oil like 3-in-1).
Do NOT use WD-40 as a lube!! It is mostly solvent, and won't provide the long-term lubing that you need.
8. Look at the rear of the mechanism. On the pre-‘99’s, there is one screw or bolt where it attaches to the door structure. This has a small amount of adjustment (to allow the window to rise parallel with the track). This bolt loosens over time, so adjust the glass as needed and tighten the screw (maybe a bolt, I don't really remember). I dunno if the 99+’s have this bolt or not.
9. Reconnect the switches, and test everything before buttoning-up.
* Everything should work pretty well.
* If it doesn't, then it's time for a new motor, and/or regulator.
10. Reinstall the weather barrier plastic, using black goop and lots of duct tape to reduce wind leakage thru the door-handle slot.
11. Reinstall panel and handle panel.

OKAY.
You've now returned the entire window assembly to about 80% of the *new* condition.

Hope this helps.
-Rick

PS: Once or twice a year, service the switches (driver and passenger sides) by unplugging/replugging the socket to reduce the effects of corrosion.

[Rockfan1815]

i always test the motors by unplugging the connectors and hooking the motor up to another 12v battery to see if it moves or not.

I didn't know about the safety devices, does the 96 have it.

[MantaGreen97]

Originally posted by Rockfan1815
i always test the motors by unplugging the connectors and hooking the motor up to another 12v battery to see if it moves or not.

I didn't know about the safety devices, does the 96 have it.
Yes, on the 96 the motors have built-in PTC breakers which can protect the motor in the case of a jam or overcurrent. When current is removed and some time passes, it resets.

There is a power window CB in the fuse centre, as well, but that protects the entire circuit. Furhtermore, the pre-99 motors were used on a lot of GMs, dating back many years. It could have been that those were before the time of the tiny circuit breakers in fuse panels, so the motors might have been designed with the built-in PTCs for back then so fuses didn't blow.

From the motor I took out of my car, I surmised either one of two things had happened to it... The regulator was completely free and lubricated when I took it out of the door, so it definitely wasn't the regulator that was bad.

I think either the built-in breaker went bad somehow so as to trip a lot (making the window stop as it did); or, the motor actually did start to go south requiring enough current to operate that it started to trip the built-in breaker because it was using too much current to run.

Eventhough my regulator had rust on the arms, it was completely free moving. In spite of this when I re-assembled everything I pretty much smeared Shell Darina Grease (a thick synthetic grease similar to what is used from the factory) all over the arms and in the tracks, for longevity.

Follow Rick's directions, and you could be okay; but, if the problem persists you'll have to replace the motor (and possibly the regulator, depending). I would recommend when you replace that motor you replace it with the OE-style and use a Made in USA motor.

[Jumpball]

I agree about getting a good quality OE motor assembly. I bought a OE on ebay and had problems. Cheap motor. Then I went to my local Auto part store and paid 20% more , but worth it. You could see the difference in how the motor was built.

I used this site to help me install it.
http://www.a1electric.com/grandam.htm

PS: The Ebayer allow me to return it, that was nice.