V8 swap

[wfo98z24]

ok so im gonna be starting a v8 swap soon on my 95 grand am. the engine and transmission i have under control but was wondering if anyone else has attempted this and what rear axle they used?

[350F]

What kind of V8? How much power you going to make?

[wfo98z24]

im actually going to drop a 351 windsor into it modded of course. not lookin for any retarded amount of power out of it, just maybe like 400- 425 hp and id be happy.

[350F]

Probably going to want some sort of modified 9" or 8.8.

[wfo98z24]

yea ima have to see what i got layin in the yard and modify it from there.

[ramairgt1]

good luck stuffing a 351W into a ga
You have no idea what you are getting into

[wfo98z24]

ok buddy this isnt my first go round. i didnt ask for your opinion on whether i could do it or not. i asked for an opinion on what rear end i should use.

[RazorDX]

If you follow through with this, I commend you.

If not, add it to the list of the other dozens of threads about people dreaming up a V8 swap, but realizing they are in over your head.

As far as your question, the rear ends out of S10s are popular for the people who planned out a V8 swap into J-Bodies. Personally, I wouldn't try this with a lot of power. From what I read, the rear ends in most S10s are only capable of handling 350 hp.

[jonnythan]

I'm assuming a new rear end is needed because putting in a V8 involves a RWD transmission?

[DomestikDemon]

^^
Correct

[ramairgt1]

Originally posted by wfo98z24
ok buddy this isnt my first go round. i didnt ask for your opinion on whether i could do it or not. i asked for an opinion on what rear end i should use.

first of all i'm not your buddy
2nd of all I could care less if this was your 100th go around
stuffing a 351W into a 90 something ga is pointless, its heavy, and its a waste of a perfectly good engine
Good luck to ya

[jonnythan]

Originally posted by ramairgt1
first of all i'm not your buddy
2nd of all I could care less if this was your 100th go around
stuffing a 351W into a 90 something ga is pointless, its heavy, and its a waste of a perfectly good engine
Good luck to ya
So is it a pointless waste of time as you say here, or is he incapable of doing it, as you imply in your first post here?

[CARS GONE WILD]

IF U DONT HAVE SOMETHING HELPFUL TO SAY, THEN SHUT UP!!!

THAT INCLUDES ME, SORRY.

[RazorDX]

It has been done to a 93, and he has a very detailed post. There is also a guy who was doing it to a newer Alero.

There are only minor differences between the 93 and 95. I think the thread has been inactive for too long, because I can't find it.

[wfo98z24]

Originally posted by RazorDX
If you follow through with this, I commend you.

If not, add it to the list of the other dozens of threads about people dreaming up a V8 swap, but realizing they are in over your head.

As far as your question, the rear ends out of S10s are popular for the people who planned out a V8 swap into J-Bodies. Personally, I wouldn't try this with a lot of power. From what I read, the rear ends in most S10s are only capable of handling 350 hp.

well im getting all the parts together as we speak, so its not just an idea. as far as the rear end goes thats what we were plannin on using, just wanted to see if neone else had done this and found a better way. so thanks for the input. ramair gt1. your one to talk about a waste of a good engine. you own a mustang you should know all about a waste of nething. dont hate just because i may have the patience and the means to do something you dont like. i love a V8 but i love my grand am, so im gonna make it the best of both worlds and get the kind of car i want to drive.

[bandit307]

Just out of curiosity, what made you choose a 351W? I kind of understand staying away from an LS"X" due to the fact of computer work that will need to be done, even still an LSX would not be much more difficult. But why not run a Chevy engine 305, 350, 400 ect. Or if you insist on running a ford engine why not a stronger 351 such as the Cleavland.

Not trying to insult you, Im guessing you had this engine lying around, But if i were to do a swap i would make it really worth while for all the time and money that is going to be involved.

By the way, what do you have planned for a trans.? C-6 or E4OD im assuming?

[wfo98z24]

actually chose the 351 due to the distributor location. plus yea we had one laying in the garage lol. and no offense taken. but we had this 351 in a mustang that we just played with at the dragstrip and i was really impressed with it. and it was stock, so i figure after we build it up itll most deffinately be worth while. as far as trans im stickin the c-6 in it with a 2300rpm stall.

[Zero]

Best wishes to your attempt. Quick question how much will the car wear and will you try to lighten the chasis. just wondering.

More horsepower + less weight = http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/csa/lowres/csan36l.jpg

LOL

[wfo98z24]

thanks zero. i will try to keep you guys posted on it. i figure its gonna take us about 6-8 mths to get it all right. and as for weight i will let you know as soon as its done and i can pull it on the scales.

[Nighthawk243]

It'll take alot of fabrication work, but It'll probably turn out.

For the rear end, would a camaro rear fit?

[wfo98z24]

im sure it would but i dont feel like trying to setup a independant rear on it. but if you mean an older model camaro its the same as an s10s 7.5 10 bolt.

[bballr4567]

I would get a 12 bolt of 9". Chances are youll have to get shortened axles though considering how much wider most true RWD cars are.

I wouldnt get any form of 10 bolt at all. They are weak from the factory much less on a modded motor. Youll just be replacing them often.


FWI no camaro has had a IRS on it. The new one will but none of the older gens had it.

[350F]

Originally posted by bballr4567
I would get a 12 bolt of 9". Chances are youll have to get shortened axles though considering how much wider most true RWD cars are.

I wouldnt get any form of 10 bolt at all. They are weak from the factory much less on a modded motor. Youll just be replacing them often.


FWI no camaro has had a IRS on it. The new one will but none of the older gens had it.

I killed my 10 bolt in my T/A already, and its stock and has never seen anything but street tires :(

Although the older 8.5" 10 bolts can handle some pretty big power...as a cheaper alternative to a 12 bolt or 9".

[TA^Guy]

I can't suggest a rearend unless you let us know what tansmission you plan on using and how much torque you plan on making. How about the purpose of the car? Drag car, street driver, road course, or just to sit and look pretty?
Originally posted by jonnythan
So is it a pointless waste of time as you say here, or is he incapable of doing it, as you imply in your first post here?
Well if this isn't his first time around then why is he asked FWD owners what rear differental he should use?

Makes sense to me.

I also curious as to why he's using a SBF 351w and not a GM or BOP motor.
Originally posted by bandit307
Just out of curiosity, what made you choose a 351W? I kind of understand staying away from an LS"X" due to the fact of computer work that will need to be done, even still an LSX would not be much more difficult. But why not run a Chevy engine 305, 350, 400 ect. Or if you insist on running a ford engine why not a stronger 351 such as the Cleavland.

Not trying to insult you, Im guessing you had this engine lying around, But if i were to do a swap i would make it really worth while for all the time and money that is going to be involved.

By the way, what do you have planned for a trans.? C-6 or E4OD im assuming?
You do know they make intake manifolds for square bore carb to bolt right onto the LSx motors now. And I agree, swaping n a 351w is a waste of engery. Corperate GM engine or BOP engine FTW. I'd say build a Poncho 400, maybe built like or find a RA-III motor, or even build a 455SD.

[ramairgt1]

Originally posted by wfo98z24
well im getting all the parts together as we speak, so its not just an idea. as far as the rear end goes thats what we were plannin on using, just wanted to see if neone else had done this and found a better way. so thanks for the input. ramair gt1. your one to talk about a waste of a good engine. you own a mustang you should know all about a waste of nething. dont hate just because i may have the patience and the means to do something you dont like. i love a V8 but i love my grand am, so im gonna make it the best of both worlds and get the kind of car i want to drive.

I didn't say I didn't like your idea, I simply said it was a waste.
Any idea is a good idea, some are just more feasible than others.
Like previously mentioned, why not stuff a small block GM motor in your ga? It would make things easier for you. A 351W is not a good choice and I really hope you don't find out the hard way. I've seen ford owners having issues stuffing a 351 in cars such as the focus and the Taurus. I cant imagine one being stuffed into a ga.

But hey its your time and money so like i said before, good luck to ya.

[sammybammy]

i thought you were going turbo with that car?

[wfo98z24]

nah changed my mind. i felt a need for more power than a quad could handle.

[sammybammy]

aight i didn't know. what stuff did you get until you changed your mind

[wfo98z24]

everything but making the piping

[DontPassTheFence]

can I have your QUAD long block when you are done ripping it our of your car :D

also, the only problem I see is cutting a trans tunnel and fabbing up a rear suspension to hold the rear end in place (as well as finding a good way to route the exhaust once you have a big `ol driveshaft under a grand am.) and I wonder if there will even be enough clearance for a sizable differential - that will probably limit your power right there, not having enough room for a beefy enough drivetrain.

I hope either you are amazing with welding and fabricating or know of someone.

But as others have said, there exist a few RWD v8 Grand Ams from your era (92-95) so its not wholly impossible at all, Ive just never heard of using the 351 to do it.

[wfo98z24]

id let you have it but i actually already have it sold. as for the tunnel and stuff we are completely cutting it out and custom fabbing one in to hold the c6 trans and all. as far as exhust goes, ill cross that bridge when i get everything else done.

[95whitese]

no offense man but 351W=not so great.
It was a base model V-8 for the Stangs for a reason. The 351 Cleveland was much better, and whoever that was that brought up using a chevy 305 that would be the biggst waste of a V8 swap ever. They were dawgs. Terrible!! But good luck with it man. I can't wait to see it done. for the rear-end i take it you are getting a used one? Cuz a moser 12bolt would be sweet.

[wfo98z24]

well the main reason im usin the 351 is b/c i have 2 in my garage and the other reason is the fact is the distributor is in thew front of the engine. and yea 100% agree a 305 is a huge waste of time and effort, it was the biggest joke of an engine gm ever made.

[95whitese]

Thanks for backin me on that one LoL. I see where you are coming from. I kinda like to use the resources I have closest to me. But I would have thought maybe an Lt1 350 would be a great way to go. Those motors packed a decent punch stock and are pretty cheap to build up. ANd the 305 only put out about 170-180 HP so actually a 3400 or a HO Quad could match it pretty dang good.

[wfo98z24]

oh yea i would love to stuff a 350 in it but its hard to find a canadian high nickel block round here for a reasonable price. my brother has a 383 stroker with about 600 miles on it he just took out of his truck but he has about 6800 in it and im not tryin to pay him what he wants for it.

[95whitese]

Yea I understand. If I knew how to do all of this I would love to see the 3.8 Turbo Buick V-6 Go in my GA. That would be lighter and packs a big whallop. And whoever said a Pontiac 400 or a SD455, you are crazy because there is no way you could fit a Big Block into a GA. Definately must go Small Block. Although wait a sec the 351 sn't a big block right?

[wfo98z24]

no its not a big block. but we also considered building a 4.3 to the gills and puttin it in the grand am too. me and my brother have a friend who has a 600 hp 4.3 in his s10 which kinda seemed more reasonable than cutting the firewall to nothing to fit the 351. but i have alot of decisions to make over the next month or so to decide how im gonna attack this.

[95whitese]

Sweetness. I still wanna see a Turbo Buick 3.8 in a GA someday lol. Good luck with this I read all about te almost turbo project and I do know you have the brainpower to pull this off.

[TA^Guy]

Originally posted by DontPassTheFence
also, the only problem I see is cutting a trans tunnel and fabbing up a rear suspension to hold the rear end in place (as well as finding a good way to route the exhaust once you have a big `ol driveshaft under a grand am.) and I wonder if there will even be enough clearance for a sizable differential - that will probably limit your power right there, not having enough room for a beefy enough drivetrain.
Transmission tunnel and even the rar suspension woul dbe cake compaired to actually fabbing a chassis for it. Not like one can just bolt in some trailing arms or a baby 4 link to the stock GA chassis, it'll twist it like a pretzel after a few hard launches.
Originally posted by 95whitese
ANd the 305 only put out about 170-180 HP so actually a 3400 or a HO Quad could match it pretty dang good.
Not all 305s put out 170-180hp. Some were 140 others were 230hp. Mine was rated at 230hp with 300ft/lbs of torque. Not bad 'power' considering a stock LT1 was making 275hp and only 325ft/lbs of torque.

You can also build them like any other SBC, I had a Jasper built 305 from a '91 Caprice police car that made 300hp with a Quadrajet.

I have seen other 305s up in the 400hp range. It's all on how you build it.

Originally posted by wfo98z24
oh yea i would love to stuff a 350 in it but its hard to find a canadian high nickel block round here for a reasonable price.
Actually it's the motors from south of the border that were stronger. But thats only a concern if you plan on rediculous power from it.
Originally posted by 95whitese
Yea I understand. If I knew how to do all of this I would love to see the 3.8 Turbo Buick V-6 Go in my GA. That would be lighter and packs a big whallop. And whoever said a Pontiac 400 or a SD455, you are crazy because there is no way you could fit a Big Block into a GA. Definately must go Small Block. Although wait a sec the 351 sn't a big block right?
Crazy? Why won't it fit? It will fit the same way a 351 will, or any other V8 for that matter. BTW, there is no such thing as a Pontiac Big Block engine. It's a large displacement but it has simular dimentions to the smaller displacement motors.

[cody_stauner_7]

i see your from NC. im stationed there and i have been thinking of doing a v8 swap in my 93 grand am. im more of a ls1 fan, but id still like to see(when your done) your grand am. maybe i could get some tips or hints from you. i really want to make it work, and i dont mind doing the work myself, i just dont know where to start. i know there is a guy who does it in california, but he specialized in 99+ grand ams, but he does put out a kit for it. if you have any questions maybe you could contact him. his name is leonard and you can find him at aedcentral.com or his shop number is 949-842-6662. goodluck to you and let me know how it turns out.

[spy]

nah changed my mind. i felt a need for more power than a quad could handle.

Your comment makes me giggle. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.

[sunrunner_pei]

i see your from NC. im stationed there and i have been thinking of doing a v8 swap in my 93 grand am. im more of a ls1 fan, but id still like to see(when your done) your grand am. maybe i could get some tips or hints from you. i really want to make it work, and i dont mind doing the work myself, i just dont know where to start. i know there is a guy who does it in california, but he specialized in 99+ grand ams, but he does put out a kit for it. if you have any questions maybe you could contact him. his name is leonard and you can find him at aedcentral.com or his shop number is 949-842-6662. goodluck to you and let me know how it turns out.

Stop spamming links to Lenny boy.

[TA^Guy]

i see your from NC. im stationed there and i have been thinking of doing a v8 swap in my 93 grand am. im more of a ls1 fan, but id still like to see(when your done) your grand am. maybe i could get some tips or hints from you. i really want to make it work, and i dont mind doing the work myself, i just dont know where to start. i know there is a guy who does it in california, but he specialized in 99+ grand ams, but he does put out a kit for it. if you have any questions maybe you could contact him. his name is leonard and you can find him at aedcentral.com or his shop number is 949-842-6662. goodluck to you and let me know how it turns out.
Damn newbie, for gods sake stop speading this crap around.

Anyone and everyone already knows that Len has some of the worst business ethics ever to grace the Grand Am community.

People have better luck going to a local speed shop or machine shop and having parts made from scratch.

[GregFarz78]

lol AED sells a swap kit now? Order now and you might receive it by the year 2015

[Ralph]

Damn newbie, for gods sake stop speading this crap around.

Anyone and everyone already knows that Len has some of the worst business ethics ever to grace the Grand Am community.

People have better luck going to a local speed shop or machine shop and having parts made from scratch.

People have more luck laying down and going to sleep thats the only place most of us will see it.

[flamingchicken]

It'll take alot of fabrication work, but It'll probably turn out.

For the rear end, would a camaro rear fit?

dont tell him that! our 10 bolt sucks, and if he wants to get 400+ hp he'll be replacing it quite often, unless he wants to build it.