Battery Bad?

[DKOnLine]

Ok Im still having problems with my car starting. BUt I have noticed that it does it when its a warm day. Cold days I haven't had any problems. It will be fine when I first start it but there are times after I drive for a little while and try to start it again it just won't start for a few minutes. No clicks, nothing. Complete silence except for the fuel pump. The car wont even crack. But I took off the battery post today and It looks like the battery itself looks chewed up. Could this be my problem? Or could there be a bad spot on my starter. Could the car warming up cause the starter to "short" and work once it cools down a little? Here are 2 pics that I took of the battery.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y255/donkeykongIII/0918070002a.jpg http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y255/donkeykongIII/0918070002.jpg

[RickHigginsHtbr]

yea, that doesnt look too healthy... but, I would still take the starter out, and the battery, take them both to autozone and let them test them both (for free!).

[rixGAphx]

Heat can do strange things, so you may be on to something with that coincidence.

When this 'no-start' condition occurs, there is no 'click' from the solenoid, right?
So the problem canNOT be with the starter motor itself, not a 'flat spot' or commutator problem or other thing inside the motor, since it's not even getting any power.
Leave it in for now.

The problem then is between the battery (source of power), the solenoid (to which the POS/red battery cable runs), and the igntion switch 'start' position.
All of these things are partially-good, since the car starts when cold and runs all the time once started.

I'm not at all worried about that bwttery terminal, though it should be cleaned with a wire brush and a paste solution of baking soda and water; or use regular (sugared) Coke or Pepsi.
While you're at it, service all the battery cables per my write-up in 'FAQ's' of this forum.
When the cables are disconnected from the battery, reach into/crawl under the car and disconnect, clean, and reconnect the end of the POS/red cable from the solenoid.
This area gets oil drips from the oil filler in the valve cover above, and oil is an excellent electrical insulator.
If it's all oil, then the heat of expansion can cause the wires to loosen or move just enough on the terminal so that they don't connect properly.

This prolly won't solve the problem, but it's a necessary first step.
* * *
Next, start carrying a 24" piece of wooden broomstick with you, and a hammer.
When this 'no-start' occurs next, open the hood and place one end of the broomstick against the top of the solenoid.
Rap the other end good a couple times, as hard as it would take to REALLY hurt your thumb without breaking it.
You won't damage anything, but this old trick has been used for years to temporarily free-up a sticking solenoid.

If this trick works, then you KNOW it's the solenoid.
You can buy a new/rebuilt starter with the solenoid attached, or you can buy a replacement solenoid solo, mebbe $25.
* * *
Finally, your '97 was part of the Ignition Switch Recall, IIRC.
This had to do with overheating of the switch, not from engine heat but from resistance to the electricity flowing through it.
Could cause a fire in the steering column :eek: .
Even with the recall, the ignition key sometimes gets very hot, from all the power running thru the switch as you drive the car.

The ignition switches themselves fail, so this might be the problem; about $125 IIRC from Checker/NAPA/etc.
Or when the switch gets hot, turning the key to 'start' might not do anything because of the way things have expanded with heat within the switch.
You would need a multimeter or continuity tester to explore this any furhter.

Has your car had the Recall repair performed??
If so, they installed a silvery rectangular metal relay on the core support, right above the center of the radiator, engine side.
I *think* this relay is in-line with the starter/solenoid circuit; this relay could fail as it gets hot, then return to normal.
Assuming it's part of the starting circuit; I dunno. Somebody else will have to confirm or deny this.

Next time this problem occurs, and after rapping the solenoid but getting no response, try firmly tapping the relay.
The relay works very similarly to the solenoid, so the tapping trick may work on it, too, if it's sticking.
If this trick works, buy a replacement relay, mebbe $10? I dunno.
* * *

Finally, though that battery terminal doesn't look too bad, the battery itself is suspect.
Lead-acid batteries are most powerful at about 50*F; they produce less power at lower temps, and at higher temps.
It's unlikely that the battery loses so much power that it won't even 'click' the solenoid, but you should still have it tested for your own peace-of-mind.

Hope this helps,
-Rick

PS:
When you reattach the battery cables, use a pair of new bolts; about $2.50 in the Battery/Cable display at Checker/AutoZone/etc.

PPS:
The no-start-when-warm can EASILY be caused by damage inside the molded rubber terminal boots, particularly the POS/red terminal.
So be sure to follow those inspection/clean/repair/replace steps in my write-up.

[jonnythan]

Is that an Optima yellowtop? Optima doesn't recommend that battery as a starting battery.

[DKOnLine]

Correct. There's no noise coming from the starter.

The thing is, is that I replaced the solenoid because I thought that was the problem. No Luck there.

I replaced the 2 battery bolts. Ran great for like 2 weeks and then started doing this again.

The battery connections are all in very good shape but I will take a wire brush to them just to make sure. The connections to the starter are fine also. I cleaned those when I took the starter out to replace the solenoid.

It has had the recall done on this car. I took it in.

I am really leaning towards the battery, one because of how it looks and 2, during the winter time this car sat for a while and the battery completely drained and I had to put it on a charger a few times before it actually kept a charge.

This is getting to be a real headache.

[DKOnLine]

Yeah its a Optima. I had alot of electronics on the car. Thats why I have that battery. Have had it for about 4 years now.

[RickHigginsHtbr]

I would put money on the battery if thats the case then.

[DKOnLine]

Just got back from Autozone and they tested the battery. It came back a good battery. Now what?

[DKOnLine]

The thing is, is that they tested the top mounts not the side mounts.

[DKOnLine]

They suggested putting some foil in the chewed up side mount and connecting the battery cable to that. What you guys think about that? I also purchased a ignition switch today. So if the battery thing isn't the problem maybe the switch is.

[jonnythan]

Foil is bad news.

You don't want aluminum in contact with steel. Corrosion city.

Take a wire brush to the terminals. I think it's definitely the battery. When you do go to replace the battery, use a red top or other brand of starting battery and install a yellow top as a supplemental battery if you want.

[DKOnLine]

Ok, so I cleaned the connections really good and changed the ignition switch. What now? Replace the battery? Replace the starter?

[jonnythan]

How is the screw itself that goes into the battery?

[DKOnLine]

Both the positive and the negative are brand new. I just bought those the other day when I had the battery checked. I had put a new one in the positive about a month ago. But I just replaced them both to be sure.

[rixGAphx]

What did the battery cables look like when you peeled-off the molded rubber insulator boots?

[DKOnLine]

It looked fine. No corrosion. Im really stumped.

[jonnythan]

Eh just get a new battery.

And get the right one this time ;)

[DKOnLine]

After months of messing with this car I finally took it to a shop in December. The problem was the Starter Relay that is mounted up front by the radiator. In the last Month and a half it has started every time since replacing it. Hopefully this info helps someone in the future.


Rob

[coupe]

I know its to late but dont worry about the battery. I have the yellow top 34/78 and it works just fine as a starting battery.

[tenspeed]

I use a conductive electrical grease on battery terminations. Goes by several names like Cu-aid, Al-nox, etc. It's grease with powdered zinc in it that is used to provide good electrical ground on the threads of rigid conduit. The grease keeps the oxygen and moisture out and the zinc provides a conductive path.

The terminal on the optima battery is a steel threaded sleeve that is set into a lead ring. The cable ring terminal has tabs that sink into the lead when the screw is tightened. If the tabs sink into different areas when you connect several times then the lead gets chewed up. The screw down the center still carries a lot of amps so keep the battery, grease it up and use it till it dies.