Grand Prix Supercharger?

[GaSC/Tnfs]

ok.... I heard "around" that you could put a stock Grand Prix GTP supercharger on a Grand Am? anybody ever heard anything like it, and if you can, I also heard that it doesn't cancel the warrenty because it is a "certified" GM part... Whats the deal?:???:

[99GrandAMSE]

... I have never heard that (not saying it isn't true, just that I haven't heard it) ... also, I would suspect installation of such a part would indeed void the warranty since the particular part (ora supercharger in general) was/is not available :)

[Wallflower]

Yes, you can put the GP blower on your car ... BUT ... there is no manifold available to provide a means of plumbing it to the engine. That, along with an ECU are going to have to be custom fabricated along with a few other minor tidbits.

[TA^Guy]

Wallflower is correct.

On that note check out RSM SC kits that use Vortech blowers.
I would prefer a centrifugal blower far before a roots style.

[MJE95GAGT]

Yes its possible, you dont need a new manifold necessarily........ just mount it like the 3400 GAs have it with their E/M kit........ but there will be some modifying such as battery relocation, hood, and low profile fan cuz the GP uses an M90 which is bigger than their M62. Someone with a Beretta and a 3400 has a M90 rigged on but their hood no longer fits. You can find an M62 in older 3800s like a Bonnie.

[Wallflower]

If you really want to put together a 'one-off' supercharger kit for your car, pass on both a Roots-style and the centrifugal-style. Both units are inefficient when compared to the Lysholm-style. Lysholm units are those used by KenneBelle, Autorotor/Opcon, Whipple, and PSI.

Eaton/Roots (1st-3rd Gen.)
http://www.capa.com.au/pics/eaton_m90.gif

Eaton/Roots (4th Gen.)
http://www.capa.com.au/pics/eaton_m90_4th.gif

Centrifugal style
http://www.capa.com.au/pics/vortech_kits_v1s.gif

Lysholm style
http://www.rotor.se/lysholm/images/1600/1600_ax.jpg


Comparison

Lysholm = L
Centrifugal = C
Turbo = T
Roots = R

Response
L : Awesome idle-to-redline rpm power. No lag.
C : Poor low-speed response, similar to "turbo lag."
T : Poor low-speed response. Turbo lag.
R : Good low to mid range power.

Driveability
L : Increased lugging ability in higher gears. Increased power throughout rpm range.
C : Must downshift to maintain boost level.
T : Must downshift to maintain boost level.
R : Increased lugging ability in higher gears.

Engine Torque Curve
L : Virtually flat curve; ideal characteristic
C : Often worse than uncharged engine at low speeds.
T : Often worse than uncharged engine at low speeds.
R : Wide range; fall-off can occur at high speeds.

Heat Buildup
L : Low; intercoolers are usually not needed.
C : Low; intercoolers are usually not needed.
T : High; may need intercooler .
R : High; limits boost available.

Noise
L : Very low noise levels.
C : Typically very noisy.
T : Very low noise levels.
R : Typically very noisy.

Efficiency
L : 70-80%
C : 60-78%
T : 60-80% Peak
R : 40-60%

[2000GAGT]

so it is posible to put a GP s/c on a GA all u need is to get a M90 fan relocate battery and do something to the hood? how much do will this cost b/c this sounds like a good idea

[flydog16]

yeah, Im interested in putting a gtp engine in my car!!

[BBT]

You'd think if it were so easily 'doable' there would be a whole LOT of them around. I wonder why there isn't? Just asking.

[pre_16365]

Originally posted by BBT
You'd think if it were so easily 'doable' there would be a whole LOT of them around. I wonder why there isn't? Just asking.

because theres alot of customizing invloved and most people dont like or cant do it so they just go with something that bolts in. this winter im going to put a custom SC on my 99 or if i get lucky and find a smash GTP im going to drop a 3.8 SC in it.

[MJE95GAGT]

Exactly, some people just want things that bolt right up and dont want to get their hands dirty or cant have lots of downtime on their car. Also, once you figure in all the extras that one may need to put all this together let alone the tubing (ie. fuel system, computer, ignition, hood if you use an M90, etc) it adds up quickly. The guy who used the M90 in his 3400 Beretta didnt bolt it on its side like all other S/C GAs but the correct way ontop of the intake manifold. So if one were to use an M90, they would need someone to custom fabricate a new intake manifold which can end up being very costly. Not to mention a custom cowl hood or something similar. I highly doubt the M90 will fit horizontal, the M62 is already crammed in there as is. The cheapest way is to find a used M62 on ebay (which you can usually find for ~300) which are on the older gen. 3800s found in mid 90s bonnies, etc or from a 89-92 (I think) T-bird which already some of the piping left on it because some of it "looks" as if it would still work or with just a little bit of modification. Then find someone to do the plumbing work which will be the hardest/most expensive part of the whole plan. Then you wont "need" a low profile fan or relocated battery but it would help a little so you can easily put in a CAI and so things are spaced out more if you need to work on it some other time. But like I said earlier, you cant forget about all the little things, esp the fuel system. By the time you are done, its still gonna end up costing you ~$2500-3000 depending on labor charges, but if you can do all the work yourself then you will save a ton of money and probably will be like around ~$1500

[BBT]

These two posts above are exactly what I mean. It is all the little things that need to be done.

Once you start incresing the power of the car, then there are a lot of other items that need attention in order to handle the power safely and effectively, and perhaps more importantly, RELIABLY.

I'm thinking things like better fuel pump, injectors. Higher capacity cooling system. Stronger valve train. Not to mention transmission. There would be so much more. It's all stuff so many people just don't think of when they say "I'll just stick a GTP blower on it."..

[matts]

i would try to put an entire GTP motor/tranny in. it'd probably be less of a hassle than putting JUST the supercharger on. with the motor/tranny you'll still have to change computer and exhaust, but that's easier than fabricating a intake and everything else. just my opinion though

[MJE95GAGT]

No an M62 swap would be a lot less hassle... try to compare 3 grand vs. 7-8 grand for an entire 3800 S/C swap..... not only will you need new engine, tranny, computer, exhaust but you will need basically a new front end.... custom half shafts alone are nearly a grand. If money is no problem then sure it would be easier, but for most people they dont have that kind of chunk change just laying around

[matts]

Originally posted by MJE95GAGT
No an M62 swap would be a lot less hassle... try to compare 3 grand vs. 7-8 grand for an entire 3800 S/C swap..... not only will you need new engine, tranny, computer, exhaust but you will need basically a new front end.... custom half shafts alone are nearly a grand. If money is no problem then sure it would be easier, but for most people they dont have that kind of chunk change just laying around

7-8000 huh? i'd invest that into a new car. i didn't think it'd be that much trouble. my dad bought a 3.8 s/c for my moms bonneville for $1200. i know, i know, the bonnville was made for that engine, but still. all we had to change was motor, computer, and exhaust. and 3000 for the cheap route? i think you could invest that 3000 into the engine, not bolt-ons, and probably get about the same output, with less problems. it wouldn't have the nice whine to it though. and that is worth the price of admission

[MJE95GAGT]

exactly, that engine was made for that car..... a GA isnt. Just ask StephensGA (sp?) over on GMP who did the swap...... lots of probs. Like I said the whole front end pretty much needs to be replaced, custom half shafts were like 700 EACH. Total he said he spent around 7500

[matts]

Originally posted by MJE95GAGT
exactly, that engine was made for that car..... a GA isnt. Just ask StephensGA (sp?) over on GMP who did the swap...... lots of probs. Like I said the whole front end pretty much needs to be replaced, custom half shafts were like 700 EACH. Total he said he spent around 7500

at first i read that and thought that was insane, but then i got to thinking. i'm at roughly $6000 on my engine and it's not even done yet. then after the engine i'm moving back to the tranny and then continue back to the rearend, so i bet i spend upward of $10000 by the time i get it to where i want it. so that's really not that bad, especially with the performance he got. it's not the fastest on the road, but i bet the ga will haul ass now. i bet that GTP motor looked like a big block in the grand am. it takes up quit a bit of room under the hood of my mom's bonneville.