Huge oil leak,2qt per 120 miles

[Fallenfast1]

I just did an oil change on my GA SE its a 3.1 with 43k miles. Its been leaking oil for a while but this is out of control. The leak is around the starter because it drips off the bottom of it. The top of it is dry. The oil filter is secure and dry,the flywheel is dry. Is there any oil lines,fittings or sensors that may have came loose in this area? My head is to big to get a look up there,oh and it seems to only leak when its running. Another question is,when I remove the oil fill cap on the valve cover is oil suppose to be flowing,flying or spraying all over because its not,nothing violent as I thought. It was the first time I ever took one of those off while the engine was running. Theres just a puddle of oil on the bottom and a little vapor but its not knocking or ticking. Thanks for your help,advice in advance.

[BIGGGPOPPA]

I Dont know About Spraying oil out the oil fill hole
I have had my engine running while the cap is off
no spray or flying did you check the head gasket seals
might have a blown?

[Fallenfast1]

I was thinking that but honestly I cant see up high enough. I was thinking that coolent would leak in before oil leaked out. Could I take off the valve cover and retorque the head bolts,those tighting from the center out right? Im kinda new at car engines. I have had alot of trouble with the radiator side valve cover leaking onto the manifold,thats fixed though.

[Coondog]

I was thinking that but honestly I cant see up high enough. I was thinking that coolent would leak in before oil leaked out. Could I take off the valve cover and retorque the head bolts,those tighting from the center out right? Im kinda new at car engines. I have had alot of trouble with the radiator side valve cover leaking onto the manifold,thats fixed though.

NOOOO don't even think about messing with the heads. If it doesn't run like crap, no milkshake in the oil, and the coolant looks clean, there is nothing wrong with the heads. Don't "fix" them.

You need to find the source of the leak no matter how difficult. You can buy some dye and use a UV light.

I'm not too familiar with the 3100, but on he 3400 the oil pressure sending unit is in that area. They have been known to leak and are almost impossible to see.

[rixGAphx]

NOOOO don't even think about messing with the heads.
x2!!!
I'm not too familiar with the 3100, but on he 3400 the oil pressure sending unit is in that area.
They have been known to leak and are almost impossible to see.The blocks are essentially the same, just minor differences (besides the bore).

That is indeed the oil pressure sender location, and that is 99% certain the problem.
* * *

On old-fashioned engines with mechanical lifters, the valves needed frequent adjustment to maintain the 'lash' (space between the rocker and the valve stem, about 0.020").
And the entire vavle train (rockers, valve stems, springs, etc.) needed to be kept lubricated with oil.
So there was/is an oil passage or two from the block into the head, and oil IS sprayed around.
When you have the valve cover off for lash adjustment, you and the engine bay are both covered in oil unless you fashion aluminum-foil temporary 'mini-valvecovers' that allow you to adjust a couple valves while containing the spray.

'Modern' OHV engines have hydraulic lifters (whose technology in standard road cars actually dates to the late '40's/early '50's :roll: ).
Oil is pumped into each lifter in its bore at the camshaft, and is relieved, still under pressure, into the hollow pushrod.
After the engine runs for 5 minutes or so (after its first start following an overhaul), each pushrod is filled with oil.
The oil oozes-out the top of the pushrod, *usually* flows thru a tiny hole in the end of the rocker, whence it dribbles down to the rocker fulcrum (the part that really moves and needs lubing).
The slight flow and spatter that occurs isn't visible thru the oil filler neck on a V6.
The spatter DOES continue enough to lube the rocker-to-valve interface and the valve stem itself.
There are little rubber valve seals on the valve stems to prevent oil from entering the valve guides.

So yes, there is some spatteirng going on, but nothing's wrong just because you don't observe it.
If anything were wrong, the hydraulic lifters wouldn't work and you would HEAR that, big-time.

Hope this helps,
-Rick

PS: Your leak *might* be the valve cover gasket, along that front edge just above the starter.
But that's pretty noticable, and actually drips into the spark plug wells or onto the exhaust manifold.

[Fallenfast1]

Its not the valve cover gasket,I took care of that. Its not the head gasket.Its below that. Do I have to take the starter out to find this oil sending sensor? I just cant find it. Its not even in my Haynes book(85-96). I cant even see where the dipstick goes into the block. Would anyone have a pic maybe? I was told its 4.5 inchs from the drivers side and 2.5 inchs up from the pan,all I see is the starter. It is all wet there.

[rixGAphx]

Do I have to take the starter out to find this oil sending sensor?Prolly.
It sure would be easier to replace it if both the starter and oil filter were removed.
I just cant find it.
I was told it's 4.5 inches from the drivers side and 2.5 inchs up from the pan, all I see is the starter.
It is all wet there.It's all wet there, 'cuz within all that wetness is the leaking sender unit.

Keep looking, it's there.

[Fallenfast1]

My oil filter goes straight down but that aside is #2 the oil sender and in the same place as my 95? Im under the impression that this is a 2000 Malibu engine.
http://www.gaownersclub.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=17118&d=1119626908

[rixGAphx]

My oil filter goes straight down but that aside is #2 the oil sender and in the same place as my 95? Im under the impression that this is a 2000 Malibu engine.
http://www.gaownersclub.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=17118&d=1119626908No.

Number 1 is the oil pressure sender unit.

[sunrunner_pei]

No.

Number 1 is the oil pressure sender unit.

Correct. And you should not have to remove the starter to see/remove it. It should be clearly visible from under the car.

[Fallenfast1]

In the picture the #2 is the one that is covered in oil on the front(facing the radiator),which then drips(once every 5 sec.) onto the starter down the back of it. So what is that sensor?
This is were I searched and got my info. Are these guys wrong?
http://www.gaownersclub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44373&highlight=oil+pressure+sender

[sunrunner_pei]

That is the Knock sensor.

[rixGAphx]

In the picture the #2 is the one that is covered in oil on the front(facing the radiator),which then drips(once every 5 sec.) onto the starter down the back of it. So what is that sensor?
This is were I searched and got my info. Are these guys wrong?
http://www.gaownersclub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44373&highlight=oil+pressure+senderYeah, but check-out the wording of the thread, vs. the designations on the pic:
The wording talks about 'A' and 'B', yet the pic designates '1' and '2'; they are bassakwards.

'1' is the oil pressure sending unit; they've looked like that on american cars for over 50 years.
'2' is the Knock Sensor, as Shawn stated.

So, it seems it's your Knock Sensor that's leaking.

Removal of the starter is prolly necessary for R&R.

[sunrunner_pei]

I dunno... (Do I want to admit this?)

When I was installing my oil pressure gauge, I mistook the knock sensor for the oil pressure switch, and removed it first. Once it was out I saw the mistake and we found the OP switch. But I didn't have to remove the starter to see nor remove the knock sensor. It too was easily visible and accessible.

[Fallenfast1]

I went autozone and picked up this
http://www.autozone.com/R,APP261968/vehicleId,1990304/initialAction,partProductDetail/store,1843/partType,00134/shopping/partProductDetail.htm
The guy at the counter looked like A motorhead so I asked him what he thought,he said the knock sensor is on the pass. side of the engine and its easy to replace.The oil sender is is on the driver side and its a pita to change.
We will see today.
ps. dont buy a haynes repair manual

[sunrunner_pei]

Neither are hard to change with the right tools, they're both quite accessible.

[sudden_impulse]

ps. dont buy a haynes repair manual

:slap: The Haynes is a good manual, just because it doesn't have one tiny sensor in there doesn't mean people shouldn't buy the book.

[Saved04GT]

I replaced mine on my 3400 it was leaking oil. Tried to get it with a wrench and coult not do it, bought a special socket for the oil sensor and it was like a 5 min job and I didn't have to take anything off. I would recommend disconnecting the battery since you're right next to the starter, I slipped and hit it and whoo fireworks :D

[Nighthawk243]

:slap: The Haynes is a good manual, just because it doesn't have one tiny sensor in there doesn't mean people shouldn't buy the book.

More correctly: Don't buy it for electrical work... :lol:

[sudden_impulse]

I replaced mine on my 3400 it was leaking oil. Tried to get it with a wrench and coult not do it, bought a special socket for the oil sensor and it was like a 5 min job and I didn't have to take anything off. I would recommend disconnecting the battery since you're right next to the starter, I slipped and hit it and whoo fireworks :D

Ouch, he's got a point. The starter acts like a capaciter, please disconnect your negative wire from the battery, that shock could kill you or hurt you really bad, plus it'll probably weld the wrench to the wire.

[rixGAphx]

I would recommend disconnecting the battery since you're right next to the starter, I slipped and hit it and whoo fireworks :DEverybody's gotta learn the hard way :roll:

:D :D

Always disconnect the battery NEG cable before working under the hood.
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
This has the added advantage of perpetually cleaning the terminal and its connecting bolt.

If your wedding ring gets caught between that 'hot' solenoid terminal and the block, your wife's gonna be real pissed when you show her the lump of gold that used to signify love, and the burnt stub of your finger that used to open jars for her.
Seriously, there is SO MUCH power in a battery that with jumper cables and a welding rod, Jeepers can do arc-welding trail repairs to their chassis.

[Fallenfast1]

Just in case anyone else has questions about this because you can make it real hard on yourself.
Looking in your engine bay from the front(knees on the bumper). The closest 3 spark plugs to you,the plug on the far right of the engine(#6) pull the plug cap off. With a small light you can see the oil sensor throught the small space between the spark plug and the exhaust manifold below the spark plug. As stated disconnent the neg bat. termial before you stick you hands in there.
Save youself some trouble and get this http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=95046
Use a small extension on the socket wrench look through the gap to make sure your on the the sensor ,remove. Its a 5 min job with the OPS socket and dont forget to unplug the sensor and plug it back in. I hope this helps someone out cuz I tried it all before I got that socket also in the pic of the block in this post, The #2 or B is the oil pressure sensor.

[Saved04GT]

x2

Did the same things and found out the right tool makes the job soo much easier :D

[Pontiac]

Explain that to women (My mother and SOMETIMES my GF) that I gotta buy a tool to do a job so that I can get a fix done in 5 minutes, versus 50 fiddle-fart'n and causing more damage with the wrong tools.

They don't always get it. :/

[rixGAphx]

They don't ever get it.Fixed.



:D :D





Ask them why their $1200+ Rowena Super Sewing machine needs a dozen different feet when all they ever do is hem a skirt. :roll:



Be prepared to spend the night on the sofa.

PS:
I have sewn my own tuck-n-roll upholstery, and mended my own clothing.
I now pay others to do this for me.
But I will take no sh!at from either gender on this issue :D :D