Nitrous

[matt03ga]

I was just wondering if anyone put a nitrous system in their 3400 and what people thought about nitrous. good idea or bad idea??

Here is a link to questions about nitrous that Summit Racing has answered:

http://www.summitracing.com/streetandstrip/professor_overdrive/TechFAQs.asp?SearchText=&SubProduct=6&Page=1#rstop

[Ralph]

I believe cavingman had his 3400 on nitrous before he got rid of it. Nitrous can be good but only when done right. I have been considering it and the safest way is a not too big of a shot with a window switch and a wide open throttle sensor. Always use a wet kit as well to make sure you are getting the right about of fuel.

[Dargasonus]

It's tricky to mess with from what I've heard..make sure and have at least talk to someone with experience with it.

[TA^Guy]

Nitrous = Best Bang for your buck.
If anyone says it's dangerous, and that supercharging or turbo is 'safer' they don't have a damn clue to what they are talking about and purely making statements spawned from ignorence.
It's tricky to mess with from what I've heard..make sure and have at least talk to someone with experience with it.
It's not tricky at all, it's simple.

The problems occur when people get greedy.

[Ralph]

I think it was Matt that said it best "If turbos and superchargers were as cheap as nitrous kits people would be blowing their cars up just as often"

[Nighthawk243]

Juice or Boost, if you put too much PSI into the engine, you'll screw it up.

[MagusXIII]

Nitrous = Best Bang for your buck.
If anyone says it's dangerous, and that supercharging or turbo is 'safer' they don't have a damn clue to what they are talking about and purely making statements spawned from ignorence.
John, I think that is because it truly is the best bang for the buck. Since it is so cheap and easy to set up, people have to knock it because why get the same results from a 2,000 dollar turbo setup as one can from a 400 dollar nitrous setup?

It's not tricky at all, it's simple.

The problems occur when people get greedy.
Yup. I had nitrous oxide on my previous car, a ZX2, for a total of 4 years. Not once did I damage the engine at all. I took the time to install it properly and was never tempted to install a jet that gave me more than the recommended safe horsepower of 75. When my father was having some work done on his 1966 Mustang at a local performance shop, I took a plug from it to show the head mechanic. He said those plugs were in great shape and that I had my system set up properly. One just has to follow some simple common sense guidelines such as not going over their recommended HP boost, scrapping their platinum plugs for traditional ones, not bouncing off the RPM limiter when at the track, not engaging the nitrous the second the tree turns green, and (highly recommended, but not necessary) switching spark plugs to 1 heat range colder for every 100hp worth of boost. Oh, and do not forget that premium fuel either.

[gt00]

scrapping their platinum plugs for traditional ones You can also use iridium plugs with nitrous . ;)

[GA_GT1]

just out of curiosity which is the best sytem for nitrous in our grand ams. Just curious lol.

[TA^Guy]

Don, once my truck is near complete I plan on running a 100shot of juice on the truck, but a 30 shot on the bike as well.
just out of curiosity which is the best sytem for nitrous in our grand ams. Just curious lol.
Not sure of any exact brand or style specific to a GA setup, but be smart and do the safe thing and make sure you buy a wet setup.

[MagusXIII]

You can also use iridium plugs with nitrous . ;)
You can but I do not feel the cost justified their use. The only advantage I could even see with iridiums is for those with 6 cylinder engines and not wanting to spend any time replacing them. And for a DOHC 4 cylinder, that is bordering on pure laziness to not want to change plugs when it is only a 15 minute job. But considering for a 6 cylinder, I could get a full set of coppers for the price of one iridium, they can keep their iridiums, thank you very much. Coppers work and have been proven over time.

[GA_GT1]

Don, once my truck is near complete I plan on running a 100shot of juice on the truck, but a 30 shot on the bike as well.

Not sure of any exact brand or style specific to a GA setup, but be smart and do the safe thing and make sure you buy a wet setup.



Just curious but for those who have the wet shot of nitrous hooked up, what kind of pressure are you running and what RPM/Gear is best to hit it in. Can you just use a little at a time or is it like once you hit the button you have to use a certain amount per shot? sorry for the newb questions.

[TA^Guy]

If you really want to get into it you could do a dual stage setup where at first you could spray say 25 and then 75, or 50 and then into 75.

To be safe I'd say I wouldn't spray until you are over 3000rpm.

[GtAudioFreak]

What are the advantages of wet over dry?

[dajuiceman]

What are the advantages of wet over dry?

i was wondering that too. Doesnt one increase your chances of blowing your motor while the other one is real safe.

[GA_GT1]

^ x2 Now that im finding out its ALOT cheaper then turboing the car, i can use it only say when im at the track so there is ALOT less wear and tear on the engine as the extra power and torque arent there all the time so it will be less practical to use. I might have to buy a spray kit instead of a vertical door kit.

[Silversmok3]

BTW

How do you determine what is a safe HP increase?
Is there some kind of table or document that one uses to determine such things?

I was investigating a nitrous mod to my 2.4, but Im worried about two things :

One: Trans Health.Does nitrous affect a transmission beyond normal use?

Two: what is an optimal setup for a 2.4? Is a wet 50 shot with a high-RPM window switch safe to run on a stock motor/fuel pump? And how high can I go before I need to start changing/replacing parts?

While im at it, what is a good window switch setting for a 2.4, right at max HP( around 5600 RPM I think) or some RPM's below it?

Forgive the noobness. I know more about FI setups than nitrous, though spray is cheaper, go figure.

[Ralph]

BTW

How do you determine what is a safe HP increase?
Is there some kind of table or document that one uses to determine such things?

I was investigating a nitrous mod to my 2.4, but Im worried about two things :

One: Trans Health.Does nitrous affect a transmission beyond normal use?

Two: what is an optimal setup for a 2.4? Is a wet 50 shot with a high-RPM window switch safe to run on a stock motor/fuel pump? And how high can I go before I need to start changing/replacing parts?

While im at it, what is a good window switch setting for a 2.4, right at max HP( around 5600 RPM I think) or some RPM's below it?

Forgive the noobness. I know more about FI setups than nitrous, though spray is cheaper, go figure.

The J-body guys have been using a 75 shot on the 2.4 and its held up pretty reliably.

Transmission is not that strong to begin with so its a possiblity but no more then any other forced induction would.

Window switch would probably be at about 3000 or so just like the 3400 but read up on the nitrous threads on www.quad4forums.com and www.j-body.org they have done a lot of work on the 2.4 and can tell you a lot. I also suggest a WOT sensor since your not supposed to run nitrous except at WOT.

[GA_GT1]

however there is one up side to nitrous. With forced induction its there all the time no matter what. With nitrous you can pick and choose when ou want to use it and where which i would assume to save your engine and trans alot of wear and tear

[Ralph]

however there is one up side to nitrous. With forced induction its there all the time no matter what. With nitrous you can pick and choose when ou want to use it and where which i would assume to save your engine and trans alot of wear and tear

correct the torque will effect it none the less

[TA^Guy]

i was wondering that too. Doesnt one increase your chances of blowing your motor while the other one is real safe.
A Dry system relays on your car's computer and stock fuel system to incress fuel pressure to compensate for the added oxygen introduced by the Nitrous Oxide.

A Wet system will have it's own fuel solenoid that will be jetted to match the amount of nitrous oxide you are jetted for. This way you insure that you have the correct fuel at exactally the same time the nitrous is introduced.

Wet system is always your safer bet.
^ x2 Now that im finding out its ALOT cheaper then turboing the car, i can use it only say when im at the track so there is ALOT less wear and tear on the engine as the extra power and torque arent there all the time so it will be less practical to use. I might have to buy a spray kit instead of a vertical door kit.
Absolutely correct. A turbo or supercharger are more likely to be used or under positive cylinder pressure more daily than someone using nitrous at the drag strip.


How do you determine what is a safe HP increase?
Is there some kind of table or document that one uses to determine such things?

I was investigating a nitrous mod to my 2.4, but Im worried about two things :

One: Trans Health.Does nitrous affect a transmission beyond normal use?

Two: what is an optimal setup for a 2.4? Is a wet 50 shot with a high-RPM window switch safe to run on a stock motor/fuel pump? And how high can I go before I need to start changing/replacing parts?

While im at it, what is a good window switch setting for a 2.4, right at max HP( around 5600 RPM I think) or some RPM's below it?

Forgive the noobness. I know more about FI setups than nitrous, though spray is cheaper, go figure.
On most 4 cylinder engines with stock, non-forged internal, you are safe with a 50shot or even a 75shot. 6 cylinders 100shot is safe and a 125 on 8 cylinders. Of course I've seen people run higher shots on stock engines without problems, but one might be pushing their luck doing so.

Yes nitrous will effect your transmissions lifespan. First thing to know about transmission abuse is that the engine's hp output is not a concern. Torque is the actual force to be reckoned with. And a fact about nitrous oxide that many people do not know is that it you will have a 25% greater incress in torque than hp. So in other words, if you add a 100hp shot of nitrous you can generally expect to see an additional 125ft/lbs of torque. This is why transmission abuse is synonymous with nitrous oxide use.

Yes a 50 shot would be safe to run on a 2.4. A 75 shot wouldn't be out of the question eithe. As stated before I wouldn't engauge it until atleast 3000 rpms. Running 100 or more I would atleast go forged internals and maybe a camshaft specifically designed to run with nitrous oxide and of course some timing adjustments.

[GA_GT1]

so with the 3400 engine would it be safe to say i could use a 75 shot on a stock engine and if used properly and say only at a track it would minamize the risk of blowing the engine and/or transmission ?

[Ralph]

so with the 3400 engine would it be safe to say i could use a 75 shot on a stock engine and if used properly and say only at a track it would minamize the risk of blowing the engine and/or transmission ?

Yes it should be a pretty safe shot with other safety features like a window switch and WOT sensor. Just remember that your transmission is known to slip a lot stock so just watch it.

[GA_GT1]

sorry for the really really newbish question but what is a window switch?

[Ralph]

a window switch is a way of programming the nitrous to only shoot at certain RPMs

[GA_GT1]

thats why im very weary of adding anything such as nitrous/forced induction because i want to make sure the tranny will be able to hold the add pressure

[MagusXIII]

A GOOD window switch will allow you to shut off the nitrous above a certain RPM as well. Say your Rev limiter is at 6000rpm. Bouncing off the rev limiter under nitrous is bad as it can cause backfires and such. So you can shout down your nitrous via the switch 100rpm or so before the rev limiter. Admittedly, this may be more useful for manual transmissions. I have no knowledge of the automatic in a 3400 so I do not know at what RPM while under WOT the transmission will shift. If it is at an RPM before the rev limiter, set your window switch to shut off at that RPM. Then when the shift is complete, it is automatically activated again.

Now as for the stock 3400's transmission having a tendency to slip, does anybody here have anything to say about the effectiveness of B&M TrickShift ATF (http://www.bmracing.com/index.php?id=products&sid=4&cat=11&subcat=&pid=378) to reduce slippage? Of course it is no substitute for a performance transmission build. But every little bit helps. Sadly B&M does not have a Shift Improver Kit, TransPak, or TransKit for any GM FWD transmissions.

[gt00]

IMO , the stock 4T45E is simply not up to the task of handling any extra stress . The torque rating on this unit is 205 Ft. Lbs , so it's already pretty much at the limit . Like John pointed out the nitrous will increase torque and guess what ? Bye Bye tranny . A better choice would be to swap in the 4T65E , which would handle the increase in power . I realize guys have gotten by with stock transmissions for a period of time , but it will eventually fail .

[lvemy3100]

IMO , the stock 4T45E is simply not up to the task of handling any extra stress . The torque rating on this unit is 205 Ft. Lbs , so it's already pretty much at the limit . Like John pointed out the nitrous will increase torque and guess what ? Bye Bye tranny . A better choice would be to swap in the 4T65E , which would handle the increase in power . I realize guys have gotten by with stock transmissions for a period of time , but it will eventually fail .

you are right the STOCK 4t45e cant handle the power but if you update and upgrade the correct parts it can most certainly handle 350+ TQ ... actually it will hold more than that but for a consevative figure based on a DD car let's just say 350 ;)

the 4t65e is heavier and will require quite a bit more money to swap in than it would cost to just rebuild the trans already in the car...

as for "blowing up the trans" using a 75 shot of NOS.. NO it will not BLOW UP but it will certainly wear out the trans parts faster leading to a shortened trans life... most people dont understand that no trans will last forever and all will wear out eventually but that is why we REBUILD them with better parts when that happens :)

If you are running a 75 shot I would be sure to adjust timing in the PCM and if you can do that then I also suggest raising your shift pressure to help the clutches from wearing out as fast as they would with stock settings...

[xspsi6]

I sprayed a 150 wet shot and it ran just fine but only did it once for a 1/4 mile blast. Shortly after I did that my tranny started to slip on the 1-2 upshift so I would say some tranny work would be called for in order for it to hold up for a while or at least a shift kit.

[TA^Guy]

Well that would make sense especially if you have a stock transmission, you are putting about 380ft/lbs of torque into a transmission that wasn't developed to hold much more than 240 or so.

[99GrandAMSE]

Thread cleaned!!

[GA_GT1]

i understand that a tranny will not last forever and added stress is sure to wear things in the out faster. the only reason im considering nitrous is that its more practical that forced induction and i can use it only at the tracks. this would minimize the wear on the tranny itself.

[TA^Guy]

That is correct.

[TEXASGRANDAM]

I Too Have Been Wondering About The Whole Nitrous World I Have A Friend Who Had A Wet System In His 99' Ga But That Was In 99' And Has Since Gone Over To The Import Moron World Of Loosers But Anyways We Talked About It One Day And He Used To Do Pretty Good With It At The Track Dont Really Remember His Time Slips But If Mine Is Capable Of Mid 15's You Can Imagine What I Can Do On The Bottle...............

[TA^Guy]

expect about mid 14s if you are going with 100shot.