Need a little advice

[maggsmvp04]

Hey guys. I recently purchased that RSM supercharger kit that was being sold here. Now with the supercharger coming I realize it would be wise to make some other engine modifications. I plan on installing the stage 2 stuff, and I will purchase HP tuners and have the dyno shop tune it. As of now, I plan on purchasing these other products from PFYC:

1. MSD 8.5mm Super Conductor Spark Plug Wires

2. NGK TR55IX Iridium Spark Plugs

3. Hypertech PowerStat Thermostat

So here are a few questions. Is it really worth the money to purchase MSD ignition coils with the spark plug wires? Second, can anybody recommend some nice gauges? Lastly, besides these few upgrades, are there any other modifications I should look into if I plan on installing the stage 2 stuff?

Forgot to mention, as of now, I've focused mainly on exterior modifications. For performance, I only have a 3-piece CAI with the K&N filter (I realize it will be removed as the supercharger kit comes with its custom intake), and a new premium battery. I also installed Flowmaster 80s with stock piping and the resonator was taken out.

I really appreciate the help and thanks for everything.

[angrysk8r]

I wouldn't really worry about ignition modifications first, get some non platinum spark plugs and that would be about it as a start. If I were you I'd definitely start with upgrading the exhaust. Removal of the resonator and a new muffler aren't going to help you much, you should get a set of headers and a high flow exhaust system from the headers back. Your stock ignition should be fine for what you're going to throw at it, take it from me. Also unless I'm mistaken, the stage 2 rsm kit is only for the 2.4/2.2L engines while you have the 3400, so I'd also definitely invest in some bigger fuel injectors too since it doesn't come with them.
However, before you do any of that, you need to know that the s/c that the kit comes with has a few flaws that you need to correct or the s/c may have a short life span. IIRC the premature failures were from the use of rubber-walled bearings and the key for the pulley was made of low-grade steel. If you look around the site you should find people who have corrected the problems and how they did it.

As for gauges, what kind are you looking for? You can find autometer boost, oil pressure, and voltage gauges at most local parts stores like o-reillys (sp).

[GA_GT1]

for guages look on pfyc.com as the have the pillar for your ga and the guages to go with it. lots of different kinds,

[maggsmvp04]

Angrysk8r, this was the kit I purchased.

http://www.gaownersclub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=83868&highlight=vortech

It actually came with 28lb delphi injectors. Some of the previous problems were fixed. I will look for the gauges on pfyc.com. Right now I'll probably go with the 3 piece pillar and use boost, oil pressure, and fuel pressure gauges.

I would love to get headers and the borla exhaust (would have in the first place if I knew I was getting an SC) but with the money I spent on the SC, and with the money I will spend on HP tuners software, gauges, plus college books this coming semester, I really can't afford those right now. Would love to though. Definitely in the near future.

Thanks and any more advice is appreciated.

[Trigga-T]

just buy ported exhaust manifolds from milzy for 225 and switch them out yourself

[angrysk8r]

Angrysk8r, this was the kit I purchased.

http://www.gaownersclub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=83868&highlight=vortech

It actually came with 28lb delphi injectors. Some of the previous problems were fixed. I will look for the gauges on pfyc.com. Right now I'll probably go with the 3 piece pillar and use boost, oil pressure, and fuel pressure gauges.

I would love to get headers and the borla exhaust (would have in the first place if I knew I was getting an SC) but with the money I spent on the SC, and with the money I will spend on HP tuners software, gauges, and installation, plus college books this coming semester, I really can't afford those right now. Would love to though. Definitely in the near future.

Thanks and any more advice is appreciated.

Damn, looks like you got a steal. 28lb injectors should be allright to start with as well, especially since you won't be flowing enough with your stock exhaust. Also, the exhaust components I listed aren't by all means absolutely necessary but definately save the money that you would spend toward the plug wires and whatever else and put it toward a header/exhaust fund. You won't be getting nearly as good of gains as you should with a mostly stock exhaust, make that your next priority.
Also, make sure you read up on the hp tuner boards, definitely read for a good long time until you know exactly what you're doing, if you don't you might end up really hurting your car.

O yea, and don't waste money on PEM's, they would help but the design of the stock manifolds is so crappy that the gains would be minimal, just put the money toward headers.

and wait, are you not installing this yourself?

[maggsmvp04]

Opps. I actually meant getting it tuned, not installing. Just caught that. Unless I get real comfortable with tuning I'm just going to take it to the local dyno shop after I purchased HP tuners. Me and my dad are going to install everything (he's good with cars). I realized with a little experience it isn't very difficult to install.

And thanks for the advice on PEM's. I'm definitely going to save up again for headers and exhaust work. You guys are a big help.

[Blackhawk]

I believe for plugs you will want to go one heat range colder than stock.

[maggsmvp04]

I believe for plugs you will want to go one heat range colder than stock.

It wasn't listed in the hardware but included were some copper plugs that are 2 degree colder.

[angrysk8r]

basically anything is better than the stock platinum plugs when it comes to boost

[KhellendrosXS]

Yep, youll want to run at least 1 degree colder than stock (Im using NGK TR6 plugs gapped at .040) and at least 93 octane to lessen knock (and there will be lots if you go beating on it all the time) till its tuned. Dont forget that RSM removes the MAF sensor which will eventually lead to your transmission eating itself due to hard shifts. The MAF is used in calculating your transmission line pressure and without it you run your car in speed density mode (limp home mode) where the car adjusts to full line pressure and wastes fuel so it doesnt knock the engine apart. Do yourself a favor and dont drive the car till you get an LS1 MAF tuned and installed. The piping becomes a nightmare as you will see when you are trying to squeeze a MAF (3.5" for the LS1 to be exact) in between the BOV and the throttle body. A battery relocation box will make it possible but its still a VERY tight fit. I am going to just clock the s/c unit around so that I can re-plumb the piping the way I want it.

At this point you might want to consider a liquid to air intercooler or air to air intercooler to try and keep the charge temps down.

I also think the 28 lb injectors are going to be maxing themselves if you are going to run the stage 2 pulley. You should really consider getting the 36 lb/hr lucus GTP injectors from Milzy or ZZP or getting 42.5 injectors from Milzy. That way there is no way that you could max out the injectors. Though its your motor and your call because those injectors are not a direct swap onto the fuel rail. You can however get a 99 fuel rail which has the right clips but you will then have to change the connector for your cam sensor because its different than your '04. If you are a member of GAGT.com you should also post up there because they have a lot of people that have done the injector swaps and know which ones would work best for a given boost level. Im only going to be running the stock pulley and Im worried about my 28 lb/hr injectors getting maxed.

Lastly, for gauges, I went with a 3 gauge pod and filled it with Stewart Warner Maximum Performance gauges available at www.summitracing.com. The only gauge I have that is mechanical is my boost gauge which it a 2 5/8 inch gauge which Im putting in the center vent in the dash. The rest are electric and are 2 1/16 inch fuel pressure, oil pressure, and transmission temp. I like them because they are reverse glow which means that they light up from behind and not from a ring around the gauge. I put LED bulbs from www.superbrightleds.com in them to make them look just like the stock dash gauges.

Links to my gauges:

Oil Pressure
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=SWW%2D114254&N=700+115&autoview=sku

Trans Temp
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=SWW%2D114284&N=700+115&autoview=sku

Fuel Pressure
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=SWW%2D114218&N=700+115&autoview=sku

And my 2 5/8 boost gauge
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=SWW%2D114539&N=700+115&autoview=sku

Heres a link to a cardomain that has the same gauges as me. He even did a few shots of where you have to install the sending units.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2316217/3

[angrysk8r]

I'd just stick w/ the stock maf, 3" is fine and it really isn't that restrictive, it also works fine for tuning as long as you have it close to the TB instead of before the s/c for accurate readings.

[maggsmvp04]

Thanks guys. That information is very helpful.

[KhellendrosXS]

I'd just stick w/ the stock maf, 3" is fine and it really isn't that restrictive, it also works fine for tuning as long as you have it close to the TB instead of before the s/c for accurate readings.

Its not an issue of being too restrictive. Its an issue of resolution, sure, stock is fine but you will find that most of the boosted GA's are not using a stock MAF. It just allows for even finer fuel tuning which I feel is better safe than sorry especially when they guy that had this kit before him blew up his motor. :roll2:

[angrysk8r]

Its not an issue of being too restrictive. Its an issue of resolution, sure, stock is fine but you will find that most of the boosted GA's are not using a stock MAF. It just allows for even finer fuel tuning which I feel is better safe than sorry especially when they guy that had this kit before him blew up his motor. :roll2:

How does it allow for finer fuel tuning? I'm not trying to be a dick or anything I'm actually quite curious. Up until now I've been basically just been using the stock maf, O2, fuel trim readings, and KR readings to tune and keep it safe.

[KhellendrosXS]

How does it allow for finer fuel tuning? I'm not trying to be a dick or anything I'm actually quite curious. Up until now I've been basically just been using the stock maf, O2, fuel trim readings, and KR readings to tune and keep it safe.

No harm. Ill answer to the best of my understanding. A stock MAF only gives accurate results to a certain Hz frequency. If you can get your hands on a tuner that allows you to upgrade the MAF to something that has more range, as in more Hz ranges then you can do much more fine tuning to the MAF than with just the stocker.

Are you using DHP or HPT?

[angrysk8r]

im using the dhp powrtuner, I'm probably going to wideband it soon and do a 3" DP with the new Christmas money but I may get the maf too if it really is worth it

[KhellendrosXS]

im using the dhp powrtuner, I'm probably going to wideband it soon and do a 3" DP with the new Christmas money but I may get the maf too if it really is worth it

Not to jack the thread but you might want to start a thread about it over at GAGT.com or 60*v6.com. They have people that have been tuning for much longer than I have and they often dont wait around to reply like on the DHP board. Im just following advice that Ive been gleaning over the last year.

[maggsmvp04]

I thank everyone for helping out. The information you provided is very useful. I've done some thinking the past few days and decided I will run stage I for the time being. I still have a semester of college left this spring. Not sure when I plan on running stage II.

Basically, I'm installing the supercharger and all necessary stage I equipment, using boost, fuel pressure, and oil pressure gauges. In a month or two, I will be installing headers and will do some exhaust work.

Before I continue, I have a few basic questions left:

1. If I want to run 8 PSI of boost, will I start to have tranny issues? I heard others say the stock tranny can't handle more than 220 HP and it will break down quick. My car has about 60K miles on it.

2. For stage I only, would getting 42.5 injectors from milzy and a 62 mm high flow throttle body be really beneficial, or is it not necessary when only running stage I?

3. Lastly, would it be wise to wait to get my car properly tuned until I get headers and upgrade the exhaust, or is it pretty simple to tune again after I upgrade. I'm not going to tune myself and that's why I ask this question.

Sorry for all the questions, but I'm still new to this and I want to get things right the first time. Thanks guys.

[loud2kse]

1. If I want to run 8 PSI of boost, will I start to have tranny issues? I heard others say the stock tranny can't handle more than 220 HP and it will break down quick. My car has about 60K miles on it.

2. For stage I only, would getting 42.5 injectors from milzy and a 62 mm high flow throttle body be really beneficial, or is it not necessary when only running stage I?

3. Lastly, would it be wise to wait to get my car properly tuned until I get headers and upgrade the exhaust, or is it pretty simple to tune again after I upgrade. I'm not going to tune myself and that's why I ask this question.

Sorry for all the questions, but I'm still new to this and I want to get things right the first time. Thanks guys.

1 your 8 psi will not cause the tranny to grenade instantly, but you are gonna be wearing on it more than stock obviously (especially if you don't have the MAF reinstalled) You should be fine, just don't beat on it every time you take off from a light. (this will be difficult) :)

2 The TB will not be "necessary" but you'll notice a difference. The injectors i suppose will do you alright, just make sure you ask whoever tunes it what your injector duty % is. anything over like 80% and you may want to upgrade to something larger.

3 Install blower, either drive it to the tuner without the charge pipe connected, or tow it to the tuner and have them tune it. When you upgrade, have it tuned again, or just do enough studying that you can tune it yourself after the upgrades.

Have fun.

[angrysk8r]

for injectors you wont necessarily need the 42.5 ones, that will be a little overkill (but it's never a bad idea), the 36 gtp injectors will work nicely as well and all you need to do to run those is to get the special bosch injector connections that you can find on 99 grand ams

[KhellendrosXS]

While the injectors may not be "necessary" now if you ever plan on running more than 8 lbs of boost (stage 2) then you WILL need them because you will max the stock 22 lb./hr injectors. You might as well do it now and get it over with and have the car tuned for them if you decided to put the other pulley on down the road. Dont half ass this because we certainly dont want to hear about another blown up GA running the RSM kit. I can think of at least two cars on 60*v6 that blew pistons up because of lack of proper fuel tuning.

[maggsmvp04]

Thanks a bunch guys. I'm pretty well informed now, and I'm definitely not going to half ass this. Taking my time. I'll keep you guys updated and I'll post clips after everything is installed and tuned.

[angrysk8r]

While the injectors may not be "necessary" now if you ever plan on running more than 8 lbs of boost (stage 2) then you WILL need them because you will max the stock 22 lb./hr injectors. You might as well do it now and get it over with and have the car tuned for them if you decided to put the other pulley on down the road. Dont half ass this because we certainly dont want to hear about another blown up GA running the RSM kit. I can think of at least two cars on 60*v6 that blew pistons up because of lack of proper fuel tuning.

I never said keep the stock injectors, just saying the GTP injectors are also a good choice. But I do agree with you, there is almost no way to keep the stock injectors with any moderate amount of boost. When I first installed my turbo I kept the stock injectors only to find they got maxed at 5psi.

[KhellendrosXS]

Yep, I agree with you on the GTP ones but at the same time with the 42.5 lb/hr ones you will never ever have to worry about maxing them and you can get them flow matched. All in all anything is better than stock.