3500 top end on 3400

[kingkill83]

I plan on doing this as I have heard it matches up fairly well with some porting on the block and a larger TB on the intake which would be ported. The thing is, I'm wondering if anyone else in here has done so, and if they are satisfied?

Before anyone goes into the "another swap" thing with this post please understand im 24, and have been working on cars my entire life. The only difference this time around is I ditvched the SVT focus about a year ago to get myself the GAGT, for many obvious reasons if anyone is familiar with the horrible work done by Ford on the 2.0.....

Anyhow, the question is there and simple, I'm not going to complicate it with any more jibber jabber other then saying if you are interested, the parts are located at this site:

http://60degreev6.com/store/index.php?act=viewCat&catId=35

I plan on going with the following:

http://60degreev6.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=59

http://60degreev6.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=24

And of course the adapter so the TB can be matched onto the IT

http://60degreev6.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=30

anyhow, im interested to hear stories, good or bad before i purchase these products here in 2 monthes.

also debating on this as well, of course with the custom pushrods and valvesprings/lifters:

http://60degreev6.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=85

[stewartfn20]

first if you are going to get the top swap, make sure everything is ported. Stock, the 3500 UIM doesnt flow as good as the 3400. If you plan on gettin the parts from the 60* v6 store, you might want to buy it quickly. I heard on another forum that Ben, the owner, will be shutting the store down soon. And if you are going to get all of that you might as well get the 65 mm tb as well. Its one of the main things to uncorking the motor for better flow. And down in you sig it says that you want 'upgraded' injectors. If by that you mean larger ones, dont waste your money unless you plan on boosting. Other than that, i think you will see some gains with the top swap. nm with the tb, i just saw that you plan on getting it. I dont reccommend that cam if the car is a DD. Go with something less agressive. Also if you get the cam, get the bronze oil pump drive as well or you MIGHT have problems.

[kingkill83]

first if you are going to get the top swap, make sure everything is ported. Stock, the 3500 UIM doesnt flow as good as the 3400. If you plan on gettin the parts from the 60* v6 store, you might want to buy it quickly. I heard on another forum that Ben, the owner, will be shutting the store down soon. And if you are going to get all of that you might as well get the 65 mm tb as well. Its one of the main things to uncorking the motor for better flow. And down in you sig it says that you want 'upgraded' injectors. If by that you mean larger ones, dont waste your money unless you plan on boosting. Other than that, i think you will see some gains with the top swap. nm with the tb, i just saw that you plan on getting it. I dont reccommend that cam if the car is a DD. Go with something less agressive. Also if you get the cam, get the bronze oil pump drive as well or you MIGHT have problems.

Well that sucks he plans on closing up shop. when was the projected for? they got a current project going on for the 3400 street upgrades. wierd. So, make sure everything is ported, thats some decent advice. as far as the cam goes, yea i plan on running it with the upgraded injectors becase after all is said and done on that route, i plan on running a nice turbo on the system, i have a garret t4 put asside that i might end up getting put on in the long run.

the thing i I wont have the 3 grand that all that is running me untill said date, so I'm pretty much living on a prayer. Sure would be nice if he stayed open; jsut for atleast another year or so. It would be even nicer if his shop was around the Detroit area so I could just drop her off for a few weeks, and say "hey, here is 5k work your magic". hehe.

and for the injectors i planned on running some 22pph inectors to match the inline pump im hoping on getting, though have made no plans into all that yet as i plan on doing the top swap first and foremost. with the 22pph and a dual feedline running a wet injection system, the gains would be lovely for track, especially rnning a timing adjuster from MSD with the digital DIS 4 system.

one can always dream and plan. modding cars (asside from law) is my life. I plan on having her complete by 2013 when im done with lawschool. From there, its all gravy n taters as they say.

it would be nice to hear from somone who has the upgrades done in here as well, I'd like to know the dyno results from the top swap.

[stewartfn20]

to your question about the store, from what i understand is that the 60* store will be sdetaching from the forum itself. Other members on the other site speculate that this store is closing down, but there will be another separate store he is going to open. As for the location, he is somewhere in indiana, not sure where. Thats still not to far of a drive from detroit though.

[TA^Guy]

You have to port the block to use a 3500 intake???

Interesting....

[kingkill83]

You have to port the block to use a 3500 intake???

Interesting....

oh no. they use the 3500 heads on a 3400 block and 3400 intake. the intake just needs to be ported at that point is all. the 3500 heads are far superior to those found within the 3400 in every aspect. When doing that one would get horsepower gains, because of the displacement, and many other factors that come down with the increased size of everything under the hood. Its pretty much a bore/stroke type deal wiht less work and better results.

[kingkill83]

You have to port the block to use a 3500 intake???

Interesting....

oh no. they use the 3500 heads on a 3400 block and 3400 intake. the intake just needs to be ported at that point is all. the 3500 heads are far superior to those found within the 3400 in every aspect. When doing that one would get horsepower gains, because of the displacement, and many other factors that come down with the increased size of everything under the hood. Its pretty much a bore/stroke type deal wiht less work and better results.

[kingkill83]

You have to port the block to use a 3500 intake???

Interesting....

oh no. they use the 3500 heads on a 3400 block and 3400 intake. the intake just needs to be ported at that point is all. the 3500 heads are far superior to those found within the 3400 in every aspect. When doing that one would get horsepower gains, because of the displacement, and many other factors that come down with the increased size of everything under the hood. Its pretty much a bore/stroke type deal wiht less work and better results.

[TA^Guy]

oh no. they use the 3500 heads on a 3400 block and 3400 intake. the intake just needs to be ported at that point is all. the 3500 heads are far superior to those found within the 3400 in every aspect. When doing that one would get horsepower gains, because of the displacement, and many other factors that come down with the increased size of everything under the hood. Its pretty much a bore/stroke type deal wiht less work and better results.
Actually that is not true, putting on larger heads does not change displacement at all. Displacement is a combination of your bore and stroke. You may change the size of the combustion chamber by swapping heads, that is if they are different, but going to a larger combustion chamber won't generally incress power unless you find a way to fill them better.

Many guys who have run 350cid motors on the street have run 305 heads with smaller combustion chambers to bump up the compresion ratio and incress torque.

I only questioned "porting the block" because I have never seen a 'block ported' when swapping intakes manifolds.

[kingkill83]

Actually that is not true, putting on larger heads does not change displacement at all. Displacement is a combination of your bore and stroke. You may change the size of the combustion chamber by swapping heads, that is if they are different, but going to a larger combustion chamber won't generally incress power unless you find a way to fill them better.

Many guys who have run 350cid motors on the street have run 305 heads with smaller combustion chambers to bump up the compresion ratio and incress torque.

I only questioned "porting the block" because I have never seen a 'block ported' when swapping intakes manifolds.

no the block isnt being ported, the 3400 intake is, to match up to the 3500 heads lol. here is what is done when swapping the heads:

Utilizing the 3400 Upper Intake means everything will look and work like stock. Your stock exhaust manifolds will bolt up, but I suggest either porting your exhaust manifolds, buying a set of S&S headers (Grand Am/Alero owners), modifying the N body headers for your platform (the front one will probably fit better than the rear), or making your own.

i didnt think 305 heads would match up to the 3400 series block? interesting. how would somone run an app like that?

just cause i have experience in somthing doesnt mean i know it all, so im interested to hear how that app would match up. Never hurts to learn.

Besides, im trying to learn what is best for this engine when it comes to doing work on it. Before i had this car, i was a ford guy my whole life, and most of the work i've done has been on the 24vDOHC 2.0.....

So this is a totally new area im diving into and trying to learn as much as i can about the different options, not just one. doing so brings me into the realm of knowing the capabilities of this engine.

a wise man once said to buy cars already built. a content man said to build it himself. i prefer the content man route, especially when it comes to my cars.

[KhellendrosXS]

first if you are going to get the top swap, make sure everything is ported. Stock, the 3500 UIM doesnt flow as good as the 3400.


Actually its the other way around. Stock to stock the 3500 outflows the 3400 plenum. Once you port a 3400 you can almost match the flow of the stock 3500 plenum.

[bballr4567]

Utilizing the 3400 Upper Intake means everything will look and work like stock. Your stock exhaust manifolds will bolt up, but I suggest either porting your exhaust manifolds, buying a set of S&S headers (Grand Am/Alero owners), modifying the N body headers for your platform (the front one will probably fit better than the rear), or making your own.

Ummmm what?? The UIM doesnt get the headers bolted to it. Plus why would you make your own when S&S makes them? Custom headers would cost almost two times more then the S&S ones.

Anyways the 3500 UIM flows much better then the 3400 when its ported. Thats why when people do the 3500 top end swap they literally put in the whole 3500 top end.

Also dont expect a HUGE increase in HP. You will maybe gain 20-30 depending on porting and tuning jobs. A cam might get you another 10-30 depending on how agressive you go. Sorry the 3400 is not the best engine to upgrade.

[gt00]

i didnt think 305 heads would match up to the 3400 series block? interesting. how would somone run an app like that?You can't , he was just using that as an analogy ...... ;)

[TA^Guy]

Wow best thread of the new year. lol

As stated I didn't say a 305 head would fit a 3400, go back and read the post again.

I also never said you had to machine or port anything, in your very first thread you mentioned that you had to port the block...

If you would like I can go highlite it if need be.

[DomestikDemon]

Wow best thread of the new year. lol

:agree2: