Major problems... need help

[Refuse Winst]

Hey guys... haven't been around in a while, but I need some advice.

'99 GA GT; My LIM gasket has been leaking for a while... been having to add coolant about once a month. I'd been checking the dipstick and not seen any indication of coolant in the oil, so I've been hoping to have the gasket replaced with the tax returns this year.

Then, about a month ago, oil started leaking. It was also a slow leak, and I believe is due to an oil pan gasket, but not sure. A couple weeks ago the oil leak got much worse, and I was having to add oil daily. I looked under the car and there was oil leaking around the oil pan, but there also seemed to be coolant and oil coming from the engine somewhere (I'd been aware of the coolant seeping from the LIM, but not sure about the oil).

About a week and a half ago I was driving to work, and at every stop the engine started running extremely rough and seeming like it was going to die. Service Engine Soon light came on also. I made it to work and could smell something burning... really smelled like coolant to me. I checked the dipstick, and though I had just added oil before leaving for work, the fluid on the dipstick was really thin... most likely coolant. I drove the car home that night (about 2 miles, roughly) and when I first started it up it seemed to run okay, just a bit rough on idle, and the idiot light turned off... but as it warmed up the problem returned (service engine light did not). When giving the car gas everything seemed fine, but at every stop light the engine would run extremely rough and want to die. When I arrived at home I let it run for about a minute and it never did die, but it was close to it. The burning smell was there again.

The car never did "overheat" and the temp never got above normal running temperature.

Now, it's quite obvious that I need a LIM gasket replacement, and possibly an oil pan gasket too, but I'm wondering if further damage may have been done? Would the LIM itself cause the problems I'm having with the engine running rough? If not, what would I look for to tell what may be damaged? The car has been sitting since then, and I'm going to get the LIM gasket kit tomorrow and starting on the repair next week (with some help), I'm just wondering if fixing the LIM gasket is even going to solve the problems I'm having. Any help would be appreciated.

[rixGAphx]

LIM gasket and oil pan gasket will *prolly* be all that's necessary.
I'll take 2:1 odds on that. :D :D

It's good that you parked it when you did.
Since you don't describe any catastrophic 'knocking' noises, you haven't [yet] spun a rod bearing; but you might be this >< close to doing so :eek:
Big $$$ if you do.
Disconnect the battery for safety.

Can you push the car to where you can spray-wash the engine and bay and underneath very well with a garden hose nozzle?
Even better is a $10 'wand' with a low-volume/high-speed nozzle, sold for 'sweeping' driveways.
It's going to be a messy repair job in any case, but removing as much build-up as possible is a good idea.

Then move the car to the repair location.
The oil pan *might* be your oil leak, but the oil pressure sending unit or the knock sensor, both in the block and kinda above the starter motor, are stronger candidates.
Jack and support the front end.

Drain the crankcase oil, and inspect it.
*Should* look like plain-old black used motor oil.
If it has a tannish color, and especially if it looks like a watery chocolate milkshake, then the LIM prolly leaked into the crankcase.

Not good, since it means you were lubricating the bearings with 'homgenized oil-water mixture'; but that damage has already been done (worn bearings, especially on the rod bearings).
Another 10 minutes of running the engine could have major additional effects, all bad.
The oil-water contains air, so the stuff can't really develop much 'pressure' (the air bubbles just compress); without true pressure, the bearings are running metal-on-metal instead of with a pressurized 'cushion' of oil.
Since the hydraulic valve lifters can't 'pump up', the valves are really sloppy and thus the engine is very rough-running at idle.
* * *

I would FIRST pull the oil pan, so as to inspect the bearings.
If they are bad, then you need to make a major decision as to $$$ and proceeding.
It's primarily the rod bearings we're concerned with (they're more-fragile under this circumstance), BUT crank main bearings are MUCH easier to check first.
Get some plastigage; remove main caps, measure the clearance, and re-torque the caps. Repeat for all 4 mains.
If the main bearings aren't scored and the clearance is within tolerance (which I think will be the case), then check the rod bearings.

Remove all 6 spark plugs to relieve pressure, but install some sort 'breathable' insert in each plug hole to prevent debris from falling into the cylinder; six-4" pieces of clear 1/2" aquarium tubing works great, since it can't fall inside, yet curves-over slightly to prevent entry of crap. Pulls-out easily when you're done.
Using the starter motor, you can 'bump' the crank around so each respective crank throw/rod cap is accessible; pull the Fuel Pump fuse so you can't accidently fire the motor :eek:
Remove the rod caps one at a time, measure the clearance with plastigage, and re-torque the caps. Repeat for all 6 rods.
Disconnect the battery again. When working under there, be verrrrryyyyy aware of the 'hot' terminal on the starter solenoid.

If the rod bearings aren't scored and the clearance is within tolerance (which I think will be the case), then we cross our fingers that the cam bearings are OK.
Frankly, there's no way to check them.

When using the plastigage, be sure to clean the bearing surfaces of the water-oil milkshake, since even a thin film will affect the plastigage's results.

That's it for 'discovery', mebbe 2-3 hours of checking bearing conditions.
Or just cross your fingers and hope nothing was ruined.
* * *

So, if the bottom-end is declared OK, then it's a simple process of doing the LIM gaskets, cleaning everything, re-installing the oil pan (after triple-checking the torque on all bearing cap bolts, and mebbe replacing the oil pump for kicks-and-giggles while you're in there) and buttoning-up.

Then running thin oil thru the crankcase, with several oil changes, to remove the milkshake residue from everywhere, especially deep inside the hydraulic lifters.

Hope this helps,
-Rick

[Refuse Winst]

Always helpful and thorough, thanks man... a bit more at ease now. Hopefully we can get this all sorted out and have my car back on the road soon. I borrowed my grandmother's Crown Vic yesterday and it just made me miss the GA even more.

[rixGAphx]

I borrowed my grandmother's Crown Vic yesterday and it just made me miss the GA even more.If you pour some sugar in the Crown Vic's gas tank, it will precisely imitate a GA by leaving you stranded.





:eek: :eek:



Oh, you meant you missed the GA's ride and handling and other GOOD points.

:D :D

[Refuse Winst]

Haha yeah, one thing about the GA is it handles like a dream... well, and the Crown Vic is a freakin boat!

I spent half of Tuesday, all day Wednesday, and all of Thursday morning doing the LIM gasket alone (well, I gave it a tune-up while I had access to everything too), but I was able to get it all done just in time to make it to work. She was still leaking oil pretty severely though. I popped the hood the other day and saw that the oil was not coming from under the car as I had previously thought, but from the front of the engine. Spent all weekend stressing out about it and finally had today off and was able to get it into a garage and get under it and take a good look.

Turns out it was the oil pressure sending unit. Cost $10 for a new one and took about 15 minutes to fix. :D I guess on the plus side the oil that was leaking was really clean and no signs of coolant or anything like that in it. Going to do an oil change next week just to make sure all the crap is cleaned out.

Now that I've got everything fixed the car is running better than ever (I'm sure the new plugs and everything made a big difference too). Whole job cost me about $150 in parts, but it's a hell of a lot better than spending $500-600 to have a shop/dealer do it. The cuts and scrapes on my hands are healing nicely too :P. The LIM gasket was the biggest job I've taken on yet, but I'm glad I did it. Thanks again for the help/advice!