Gutting my car for a race

[CHollman82]

Well my sisters boyfriend owns a 98 2.2l sunfire gt and was talking trash to me saying it was lighter than my car so I didn't stand a chance in a race and shit like that, so i agreed to race him, cus I've got like 30hp on him, plus I had to defend the GA name, you know how it is. So anyways he is right that his car is significantly lighter than mine, so I've been thinking of ways of evening that up a bit. So far I'm going to remove the rear seat, passenger seat, all the crap from my trunk (spare, jack etc.) and that is really all I've been able to think of. I mean I could take out the carpets and interior panels, and door trim panels, and my sound system, and stuff like that, but add it all up and it probably isn't even 25lbs, plus it would be a royal pain in the ass. I was just wondering if all that would be worth it and if anyone has other ideas of ways I could gain the upper hand.

[CHollman82]

Oh, and as far as I know his sunfire GT is completely stock, and right now so is mine, but I plan on having a CAI in there by the time we go at it.

[jazzman]

If its a GT it has the 2.4. If it is the 2.2 and auto you could take him with all your stuff, if its manual he might give you a good run for your money if your auto.

[CHollman82]

Originally posted by jazzman
If its a GT it has the 2.4. If it is the 2.2 and auto you could take him with all your stuff, if its manual he might give you a good run for your money if your auto.

Yeah, I know it is the GT so Ill take your word it is a 2.4, my sister must have heard wrong on the phone. Both his and mine are auto.

[Phantomus]

Try running a quarter tank of gas. Remember that gas weighs in at about 6.2 pounds per gallon (especially good if he is running a full tank). You could also gut the front and reaar bumpers of all saftey beams and insulation and just run the bumper covers. Very dangerous, try not to hit anything.

[CHollman82]

The gas is a great idea, I didn't even think about that. But I don't think I am going to dismantle my bumpers, too much work, though I might change my mind, it would be nice to not just beat him but completely crush him.

[Phantomus]

Try it man, you'll be surprised how good that works. There are all kinds of ways lto lose weight. If you had more time and a bigger budget, I could show you how to lose a few more pounds. Remember that for every 100 lbs. you lose, it is like gaining 10 horsepower. Try to lose 10 pounds in 10 places. It is a lot easier than you think. If you have access to a cheap scale, weigh the parts you remove in big groups, to be more accurate. You'll be surprised what you can lose. :)

[SweetAlero99]

Originally posted by Phantomus
Try it man, you'll be surprised how good that works. There are all kinds of ways lto lose weight. If you had more time and a bigger budget, I could show you how to lose a few more pounds. Remember that for every 100 lbs. you lose, it is like gaining 10 horsepower. Try to lose 10 pounds in 10 places. It is a lot easier than you think. If you have access to a cheap scale, weigh the parts you remove in big groups, to be more accurate. You'll be surprised what you can lose. :)

100 pounds=10 horsepower???? uhh im not sure about that

i do know 100 pounds=.1 second at the track.

[1995grandam]

you can take out your ac man. my friend and i recently took out his ac on his vette, and it weighed a good 40 pounds.

although what i dont get, is if the guy with the sunfire is saying he can beat you because he is lighter, well, by taking out seats and all of that stuff, isnt that kind of showing him that he's right? i say try him with your car the way it is. and anyway, if your right about you having 30 hp on him, and his is auto and yours is standard... i dont see a problem. you should beat him hands down.

oh, and just a bit of info i found. a 2002 (i know its a 98 your gonna race, but hard to find specs on a 98.) sunfire gt weighs 2771 lbs. i know my car only weighs 2850 or so. not that much of a difference.

[CHollman82]

mine is auto, and it is the power to weight ratio that I am worried about

[1995grandam]

oops... lol thought for some reason yours was a 5-speed mk. power to weight ratio lets see. how much hp you got? i could look it up but some of this shiz is hard to find.

[Teamdiracing]

I hope none of you guys actually lost a race to a sunfire. I have had a couple close calls but never lost to a sunfire/cavalier.

[Teamdiracing]

Sorry dude never noticed you were running a 2.4

[Phantomus]

All right here goes:

1996 Pontiac Grand Am
2.4 LD9
Automatic transmission
Curb Weight: 2954 lbs.
HP: 150
Torque: 155 fT/lbs.

Power to weight ratio
0.0507

1998 Pontiac Sunfire GT
2.4 LD9
Automatic transmission
Curb Weight: 2822 lbs.
HP: 150
Torque: 155 fT/lbs.

Power to weight ratio
0.0532

Power to weight ratio is the horsepower divided by the curb weight. Check my math to make sure. Look at specs as tested.

Grand Am
http://www.automotive.com/reviews/pontiac/96_pontiac_grandam_summary_specs.html?source_id=10 57&transaction_collect_site=1057

Sunfire
http://www.automotive.com/reviews/pontiac/96_pontiac_grandam_summary_specs.html?source_id=10 57&transaction_collect_site=1057

[MagusXIII]

Thx Phantomus! I was gonna research the weights but you beat me to it. However, edmunds.com lists the weight for the GASE as 2882. However, that could be with a manual transmission.

Other than spending a few hours installing a nitrous oxide system, I cannot think of any quick and effective bolt on mods. Do you have time to get to an exhaust shop for a catback???


Don

[Phantomus]

Good call MagusXIII, I was about to sugeest an exhaust or nitrous myself. He could also go to autozone and do a small trick I did once for a little bit of an edge. Buy one of those universal cone air filters for $20 and go to the exhaust section and buy a peice of 3 inch tubing about 6 in. long. take out the stock air box and put the pipe in the rubber elbow before the IAT sensor. Then push the filter on the end of the tube. Instant WAI for about $24. Not the greatest, but worth the money for a few runs. Try spraying some throttle body cleaner for slighlty better performance, especially if you've never done it before. If you can't get a cat back exhaust, gut your catilytic converter and slap on a turbo muffler. No huge gains, but again it depends on how much money you have and how bad you want to win. Plus it won't take all your back pressure so you can still have a good launch. Remember, you can't pass inspection like that, but you can always buy a high flow unit later.

[CHollman82]

Oh shit it is the same engine??? He told me he had 120hp :doh: :banghead:

Well, if I lose enough weight to make it lighter than his and add a CAI I should still win easy right?

[Pte Socks]

Man. just race him. Simply put.. you will not own him if all you do is shave off a few lbs less and add a CAI for a mod. He could still win. What you should be more concerned with is your lauches. With both cars automatic and same engines its pretty much a test to who has the best shifts. Since your both auto's that means nothing and what you should be thinking about is how well you take off. If you wanna beat him.. get a good launch. A good launch is when you hear your tires chirp then take off.. you dont want to squeel your tires or else you lose time..What you should practice doing is powerlauches. This techinique makes you use both your feet. The trick is to put your car in drive.. and have you left foot on the break while your right is on the gas. While your foot is on the break.. slowly press down on the gas till about 1500 to 2000 rpms.. When the light goes green.. let off ther break and punch the gas.. but only so much as to hear your tires chirp and nothing else.. if you do it this way.. you save a lot more time just due to the fact that his reaction time will be slower. Also.. turn off your fog lights, stereo, ac, heat.. anthing that uses battery power.. this gives you that extra more hp to drive your car to the finish line. One note though.. dont always do power lauches.. they tend to be quite hard on the car.. instead.. dont rev but still use both your feet when taking off.. you will be amazed at how much time you can save doing this..

[CHollman82]

Hey thanks for the tips, I've done powerlaunches before but they seem to be murder on both the brakes and the torque converter, but I guess once in a while will be fine. It's that tire chirp rather than peel that I need to get good at, I know exactly what your talking about though. What gear do you recommend starting in, should I start in 2nd and then shift to 3rd at 5600, or just put it in 3rd and go?

[Pte Socks]

the gear part im not too sure about.. personally i just put it in drive and go.. but i have heard that putting it in third will give you more torque and better launches.. i have yet to test that theory out.

[jayhawk]

You would be suprised how much a stripped trunk and shorter tires can do...

http://www.jayhawk1013.com/picturepage.html

[matts]

why would you go through so much trouble with all the removing stuff? the back seat, spare tire, and subs if you have any might be reasonable, but the bumper braces and a/c? those 3 right there will save probably a 100 pounds or so. if you take the a/c out you gotta get a shorter belt. you take the bumper braces out and you gotta find a way to mount everything back. if you want a sure fire way to beat him and you got a few hundred bucks handy just start spraying. then you've got a 50+ hp advantage over him with just the press of a button.

[2000GAGT]

ok i kno im changing the subject but i dint want to start a new thread...anyways i was wondering how bad i would lose to a 98 grand prix GTP...and if i get the ZEX system would i beat him then?

[Devizion96']

Originally posted by 2000GAGT
ok i kno im changing the subject but i dint want to start a new thread...anyways i was wondering how bad i would lose to a 98 grand prix GTP...and if i get the ZEX system would i beat him then?

you would get your ass handed to you, to put it lightly.

[CHollman82]

Yeah, lol, the sectret to being a good racer is to know your limits, would you go up against a viper? how about a corvette? lol

[matts]

lol. a gtp spanked my ass a few months ago. and im running a spunky 350 with gears in my truck

[2000GAGT]

well sorry for askin that question a simple....you would lose would do...but w/e i dint kno b/c i raced a 92 firebird formula with a 305 and a 85 Z28 HO 350 bored out and i won i raced each of them twice so i ddint kno if i would lose or not but thanks anyways guys

[CHollman82]

Can I ask how you even drive that car if your only 15, you really shouldn't be racing without a license. And how did you even afford that car, when I was 15 I could barely afford a pack of gum, lol

[1995grandam]

yes i had my ass handed to me by a gtp the other day. it was a girl and i dont even think she was at full throttle but she slightly spun them and i heard that beautiful whine goin and she took me easily. weird thing was, there was no hood on it...hehe. i gots me a good look at its sc.

[Jason Lesbirel]

Originally posted by Phantomus
All right here goes:

1996 Pontiac Grand Am
2.4 LD9
Automatic transmission
Curb Weight: 2954 lbs.
HP: 150
Torque: 155 fT/lbs.

Power to weight ratio
0.0507

1998 Pontiac Sunfire GT
2.4 LD9
Automatic transmission
Curb Weight: 2822 lbs.
HP: 150
Torque: 155 fT/lbs.

Power to weight ratio
0.0532

Power to weight ratio is the horsepower divided by the curb weight. Check my math to make sure. Look at specs as tested.


The math is right, but backwards - you divide the curb weight by the horsepower, not the other way around...

So the GA has a Power-to-Weight ratio of 19.6lbs./hp - each horse is pulling 19.6 pounds of car.

And the Sunfire has a ratio of 18.81lbs/hp - each horse is pulling 18.81 pounds of car.

I s'pose if you like you can do it the other way, but doing the math this way is easier to comprehend than saying the car has a p/w of .05hp/lb. of car.

Plus dividing weight by power is more readily quantifiable - doing it the other way is misleading, as it gives the impression that there isn't a big difference, and 132lbs. IS a big difference, especially when you consider that you both have the same powertrain.

[2000GAGT]

Originally posted by CHollman82
Can I ask how you even drive that car if your only 15, you really shouldn't be racing without a license. And how did you even afford that car, when I was 15 I could barely afford a pack of gum, lol
what so im 15 and automaticaly i cant street race your 20 and you shoodnt street race either but w/e thanks fer everyones advice

[Phantomus]

The math is right, but backwards - you divide the curb weight by the horsepower, not the other way around...

I don't know, maybe I'm totally wrong, but check this information out first.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/horsepower3.htm (http://http://auto.howstuffworks.com/horsepower3.htm)

[rollbonez]

Originally posted by 2000GAGT
what so im 15 and automaticaly i cant street race your 20 and you shoodnt street race either but w/e thanks fer everyones advice

What crazy state gives licenses to 15-year olds??? I couldn't even get my PERMIT in Jersey til I was 16!

[2000GAGT]

Originally posted by rollbonez
What crazy state gives licenses to 15-year olds??? I couldn't even get my PERMIT in Jersey til I was 16!
who said i had my license

[1995grandam]

what so im 15 and automaticaly i cant street race your 20 and you shoodnt street race either but w/e thanks fer everyones advice

EXACTLY! whats so hard to get about it, your 15!

[Pte Socks]

K man.. dont friggin race if you dont even have your license! and how the hell do you afford a 2000 GAGT anyways? sheesh.. dont be stupid man! if your busted you wont be able to get your license for so many years! sorry but if you street race and your 15 and you dont have your license you should be "taken out and beaten with a stick" to put it nicely. Common man.. dont do that shit. Id hate to see you dead on the road or in prision and thats serious reality for you.

[matts]

a 15 year old with a grand am isn't impressive. i went to school with a girl and when she was 15 her parents brought home a 3000GT for her. THAT made me sick

[CHollman82]

I went to highschool with a girl who got a brand new, yellow, Nissan X-Terra, with a license plate that said "ISLNDSUN"

http://www.autowire.net/xterra.jpg

[LargeFish]

In Ohio you can get your temp. at 15.5. Some states are even more liberal these days...

Originally posted by rollbonez
What crazy state gives licenses to 15-year olds??? I couldn't even get my PERMIT in Jersey til I was 16!

[matts]

an x-terra is nice, but a 300+hp car for a 15 year old girl that can't even drive a stick shift? come on people, lets use a little common sense. im not even sure what age you have to be in arkansas to get your permit. i know they were trying to change it to 16 a while back but i don't know if it passed. it didn't affect me so i didn't care enough to keep up with it

[underthegun]

Originally posted by Unrealoaded
the gear part im not too sure about.. personally i just put it in drive and go.. but i have heard that putting it in third will give you more torque and better launches.. i have yet to test that theory out.

it is true 3rd gear is the way to race...last visit to lvd john(taguy) told me to drop it to 3rd and i gained 1.88 mph in the 1/4

[99SEDude]

Originally posted by underthegun
it is true 3rd gear is the way to race...last visit to lvd john(taguy) told me to drop it to 3rd and i gained 1.88 mph in the 1/4

Can this be done with an auto tranny?

[underthegun]

Originally posted by 99SEDude
Can this be done with an auto tranny?

yes thats what i was referring too...

[TA^Guy]

Few racing tips for your run.

Check fluid and filters. Clean your air filter, check out tranny fuild and oil. Change the oil before heading out to the track. Nice fresh clean oil does reduce friction, same goes for synthetics, and yes it has been dyno proven.

Lower front tire pressure to about 26psi. Don't do it too much because it can distort the contact patch on a radial tire and won't help with traction.

Raise your rear tire pressure to 35-36psi for slightly less rolling resistance.

You can install coil spring spacers in the rear to prevent load shift during a launch. Keep the nose down will keep pressure on teh drive wheels resulting in better traction. Note, it is not advised to drive with spacers in the coils.

Try to run with about 1/4 tank of fuel.

Don't sit with the car running while in staging (if you rat a track), shut it off and open the hood, let that motor breath a little.

Actually, buy a bag of ice at the consesion stand and and sit on top of your intake manifold.

Pull the shifter back into 3rd for better shifting characteristics. You won't be using OD anyhow.

Shut off your Traction control and A/C!

Don't race with a passenger, seems this is the cool thing to do these days. If they want go for the run tell them to get their own car.

I have a few more tips but I don't think they would apply here. :D

Originally posted by 99SEDude
Can this be done with an auto tranny?
Yes it was done with a Automatic.
In a quatermile drag race you won't need your overdrive so back the shifter back into '3'. This is also known for changing the shift characteristics also. Which is why Jarrod (underthegun) noticed a slight gain, even with no real 'cool down' in between runs.

[99GrandAMSE]

... pull it back into second and manually shift it into third when (and if) you need it ... it MIGHT make you even a little quicker like it did for me (every car is slightly different so you wqill have to try several things to see what 'works' for you :D)

[Pte Socks]

Hmmm i have to try this shift to 3rd thing.. ive never really tried it before. Also.. to race.. use both your feet. dont powerlaunch cause its hard on your car.. but use both your feet and you will notice your reaction time is a lot less..

[bidaci]

One item that was posted but quickly passed by without any comments was putting on a smaller diameter tire. This will in effect give you a higher gear ratio that will allow your car to launch and rev quicker. The amount of increase will obviously be determined by the difference in tire size that you use. This will not amount to a whole lot but every little bit helps. Also don't forget to use the smallest (read lightest) tires you can in the rear of the car.
As far as HP to weight ratios they are good starting point but there are so many variables involved that you cannot use this as your only basis if the numbers are close.

God Luck!!

[animenick65]

heres my input...Keep your windows up during the race. It will help with aerodynamics at your top speed. If they are down or cracked, the air from the outside will go in and can add pressure on the car. Not alot, but all these little things put together will help. The gas sounds like one of the best ideas. Its gonna get hot in there with the a/c off and the windows up (especially before the race when your hearts going.

[BiH]

I wouldnt bother with taking out the rear seats, they weight next to nothing. Just race your car as it is everyday, that way you know how fast it is all the time. I hope you aint gonna race on public streets tho'?

[1mean99grandam]

ok, so who won this race??? what happened with it?

[matts]

:lol: i had forgot about this thread

[golfinggoalie]

ya i learned a lot from this thread...i still havent tryed to shift to 3rd from 2nd...i just think its gonna hurt my tranny

[1mean99grandam]

Originally posted by golfinggoalie
ya i learned a lot from this thread...i still havent tryed to shift to 3rd from 2nd...i just think its gonna hurt my tranny
no - go 2nd to 3rd.........

I drive my auto like a stick......... start in second, to 3rd - to OD. better response time and quickness.

You can pull 40+ lbs from the trunk alone, 12 or 13 for back seat, 5 for the mats, 12 for passenger seat, go further and you can atleast go 15 - 20 lighter if you take out back deck and rear interior panels...........

I took like 80 lbs out of the Firebird in interior stuff alone.........

[1mean99grandam]

double freaking post - sorry

[matts]

5lbs from the mats??? dayyuummm, what kind of floor mats you got??:P

[golfinggoalie]

oops, i meant to shift from 2nd to 3rd. Cus ya that would be a great idea to DOWNSHIFT while your racing.

[1mean99grandam]

Originally posted by matts
5lbs from the mats??? dayyuummm, what kind of floor mats you got??:P

I got some real nice heavy duty mats for everyday purposes. the rubber bottom ones with pointy things and heavy material.....

some people use those "nopi" or "f&f", "type r" matts - those things weight a ton!!!

[30thAnnGAGT]

If you want to go full race trim,

Pull the mats and the insulation that comes in these crazy cars. I gutted mine before a race. You wouldn't believe how heavy all that crap turned out to be. It's under the carpet in your trunk, in your cabin, under your rear seat. It's a pain to drill through if you're ever installing anything. Insulation in the doors can also add up.

Remove all seats, passenger, back seats, fold downs the whole bit. If you really want to get picky, the drivers side headrest too :)

Now for the more serious racers.... bumpers, AC, ABS... all those are dang heavy!

I've even known a guy to go as far as removing the stock amp because it weighed 11 ounces.

Good Luck! :)

[matts]

Originally posted by 30thAnnGAGT
If you want to go full race trim,

Pull the mats and the insulation that comes in these crazy cars. I gutted mine before a race. You wouldn't believe how heavy all that crap turned out to be. It's under the carpet in your trunk, in your cabin, under your rear seat. It's a pain to drill through if you're ever installing anything. Insulation in the doors can also add up.

Remove all seats, passenger, back seats, fold downs the whole bit. If you really want to get picky, the drivers side headrest too :)

Now for the more serious racers.... bumpers, AC, ABS... all those are dang heavy!

I've even known a guy to go as far as removing the stock amp because it weighed 11 ounces.

Good Luck! :)

but with all that the car becomes useless for the everyday driver. if it's sole purpose was life on the track it'd be different.:D

[30thAnnGAGT]

Oh there's so much further you could go :)

Yank the carpet, the inside door panels, the dash, headlights, tail lights, roof liner, do an exhaust dump and shed the stock exhaust piping, spoiler. Then you're REALLY gutting a car :D

I have known guys that have dumped the ABS and the AC, and still driven the car daily. (well in the summer anyway) :)