3.1 starter issues please help...

[pontiac3100]

3.1 starter issues please help...

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hey guys been a long time....
i have a 1990 pontiac grand prix se 3.1.
i replaced the starter (had it tested first).
it was fine yesterday but when i first tried to start it it made a metallic clunk sound then cranked.

got home tried it again like 3 times...it was fine.
this morning it was fine.

got to work turned it off started it up; it cranked the engine ran then cut off.
tried to crank it and it made the metallic clunk sound again.

i tried to jump it it still makes the clunk sound.

i'm thinking it's the starter shim or either the big + wire going to the starter motor but if that was the case would'nt the solenoid not make any noise either.

someone please help me?!

[RooK]

Sounds odd. I'd highly suggest someone take off the flywheel inspection plate and take a look while it's being cranked. It might not be meshing with the flywheel right, but that's the only way to really tell. Who knows... might have gotten a faulty starter with a messed up bendix.

[pontiac3100]

well to be more descriptive.
when i got to work i shut the car off.
then started it back up.
the engine ran.
turned it off for a few seconds.
cranked it the car ran then dies out then i tried to crank it...thats when it's been making the clunk sound.

[rixGAphx]

The 'clunk' is undoubtably the solenoid actuating.
What it's hitting is what's in question, since it 'hits' 2 things: Ring gear, and terminals.
1. The 'bendix' is thrown into the ring gear, so the teeth engage.
As rook stated and you inferred, the starter attachment/alignment might be off-axis (mebbe a shim dropped out, mebbe this starter shouldn't have HAD a shim) and the 'bendix' is hitting 1/4" or more from where it should; so the gear teeth don't mesh.
But you would still hear the starter motor spinning, just no teeth engagement.
2. The 'bendix' is being thrown properly, and it meshes properly.
But the solenoid is messed-up inside, and the metal plate that connects terminals isn't engaging, so power isn't flowing to the motor windings.
3. The 'bendix' is being thrown properly, and the plate is connecting terminals.
But the starter motor windings (or the brushes) are faulty, and power isn't flowing thru the starter.
4. If the plate were connecting with the terminals, but the solenoid wasn't being thrown into the 'bendix' far enough to engage, then you would hear a 'click' followed by the starter motor spinning and whining.

Did the replacement starter motor come with a new solenoid, or did you re-use the old one?

Have you serviced the battery cables?
The 'big cable' can easily carry enough amps to actuate the solenoid (not much, mebbe2 amps/ 25watts), but not enough to crank the engine (80+ amps/1000 watts for the V6).

Easiest first thing is complete battery cable service.
Next would be removal/checking/rinstallation of the starter, unless that's the old solenoid, in which case replace it.
And even a fresh starter can be faulty out-of-the-box, especially a cheaper re-man'd unit from AutoZone.

Good luck,
-Rick

PS: Factory starters/bellhousings/engine blocks are precisely-machined enough that they *usually* (95% of the time??) don't need shims.
Older blocks/bellhousings can become distorted enough with heat that a shim becomes necessary.
Or the block and BH are still precise, but the last, 'el cheapo' starter was so out-of-axis that it needed a shim; your new, better-quality replacement doesn't need that shim and it's actually the cause of the problem.

[pontiac3100]

man i can always depend on a answer from u rick.

here's what i did raised it up.
looked at the flywheel...the teeth are fine.
at first i thought the motor locked...but thats no way.
looked even more and seen the starter gear still stuck out to the flywheel.

turned the flywheel it retracted back in.

the shim was fine.
tried it again still made a clunk.

checked the battery volts 11.5 but cranked 10volts.

so i took the starter and battery to murrays tested the starter it cranked over.
but the guy said that it seems weak.

but then he seen the results for the battery.
330cca
so he recharged the battery.
i put it in and it started right up.

i let it run for about 20minutes.
even checked the volts while charging which was @ 14volts...which is pretty damn good on a gm.

i'ma keep my eye on it.


but i have another problem.

when i try to take off it'll bog down.
i would have to keep open/closin the throttle to get it to accelerate.

i know one of the wires are bad (i know my cosing cut it by accident)
but this should'nt cause that to happen....

p.s. the starter is a j/y starter that was replaced

[pontiac3100]

okay i found two wires bad...replaced all of em'.
i now got the car to run without shutting off.

somewhat.

when the engine is cold it drives fine.
but once the gauge gets in between 130*-180*F the car will bog like no tomarrow yo have to keep playing with the gas pedal.

but once it gets near 220*F it'll run decent...

[pontiac3100]

bump