Fuel Or Ignition Fuel Or Ignition or could it be ????

[03GrandAmGT]

Hello everyone,

New to the board and haven't found what I'am looking for with a search so here goes.
1995 Grand Am SE, 98K miles, Quad 4 2.3L, all Original with ignition switch replaced in 2002.

Problem we are having is one day in January the car would not start until later that day when the weather warmed up (Idaho). Not sure how warm it was that day but the car fired right up.

Yesterday in the morning the wife tried to start the car, it would turn over but not fire, it was about 35 deg. F. Later in the day I tried it at 44 deg. F. and the car turned over and fired right up. Now today the same thing, right now it's 33 deg. F. and the car won't start.

This seem to be an intermittent problem, as on other cold days it starts and will run fine. I have checked with my scanner (INNOVA 3120 OBD 1 & 2) and there are no codes that have been thrown for the scanner to pickup. Just to make sure the scanner was working I pulled the MAP connection and scanned the engine and got a DTC34 code so I know the scanner is working.

I have tried to do a Fuel Pressure check but there is no FPR (Schrader) valve to chuck a pressure gauge with.

TIA
JD

[cjperotti]

Try some dry gas. Might have some moisture in the tank.

[tenspeed]

Get a can of starter fluid. When it doesn't start, remove the air filter and spray a little into the intake.

If it coughs, you have spark and you know it's a fuel delivery problem.

[03GrandAmGT]

cjperotti,
Thanks for the reply. Tried that yesterday, and today the same problem.

Tenspeed,
Thanks for the reply.

While sitting here today working on a system for work that required a relay it turned a light on to the Fuel Pump relay. Knowing that a relay takes the brunt of voltage and amps and is also the weakest leak in most electronic circuits I replaced and will keep my fingers crossed.

Thanks
JD

[tenspeed]

Generally, if you turn the key to "On", you will hear the fuel pump run for a couple of seconds until the pressure builds up.

I do that everytime I start the car. It reduces the amount of revolutions it takes the engine to fire.

[Matt95GT]

Hard to diagnose via the internet for a no-start condition like this, but it looks like you're off to a good start narrowing it down.


While sitting here today working on a system for work that required a relay it turned a light on to the Fuel Pump relay. Knowing that a relay takes the brunt of voltage and amps and is also the weakest leak in most electronic circuits I replaced and will keep my fingers crossed.


If you want to eliminate that as suspect for sake of troubleshooting...
There's an unconnected red wire sitting near the windshield cowl on the drivers side. If you jumper it to +12 volts then the fuel pump will run constantly:
http://fazeshift.org/pics/albums/userpics/10001/8A-23-2%20Fuel%20Control%202.3.jpg

[03GrandAmGT]

tenspeed,
Thanks again for the reply. Well yesterday afternoon temps hit a real hot 43 F. and tried starting the car. Sure enough fired right up. This morning again didn't want to start. Tried real hard to listen for the fuel pump and could not hear it.

Actually I have never heard the fuel pump on this car, unlike our truck and 2K3 GA. Anyway went and got some Starter Fluid (Love The Smell Of Ether in the a.m.) sprayed it in the intake hose after the filter and sure enough she fired right up.

OK so now we have it narrowed down to the pump. What is cuasing it to not start when cold but as soon as the temp hits a balmy 40-44 deg. it will fire right up??? Is it actually the pump or is there some electronic crap that might be causing this circuit to have a open circuit when cold and a closed circuit when warm???

I replaced the relay due to the fact as the cold temps come on a break (gap) in the relay coil wire will get bigger and when it's warm the break will sometimes reconnect itself completing the circuit.

Mechanics or Electronics don't scare me.:D

So looks like I'll be pulling the tank. Whoever the engineering staff was for designing this, should be put on the production floor to repair ALL fuel pump problems!



Matt95GT,
Thanks for the reply and tip on the Red wire. Unfortunately this vehicle does not have it, the only wires that have no connection inside the engine compartment are by the engine and the wiring diagrams I have looked at show these to be for the V6 version.

Thanks
JD

[Matt95GT]

Matt95GT,
Thanks for the reply and tip on the Red wire. Unfortunately this vehicle does not have it, the only wires that have no connection inside the engine compartment are by the engine and the wiring diagrams I have looked at show these to be for the V6 version.

Thanks
JD

Are you sure you're looking in the right spot? Unless some confused soul cut it off, they all have it, including the Quad 4's. The above diagram applies to 94-95 Quad 4's, right from the Helm's factory service manuals. (Haynes and Chiltons suck - their wiring diagrams are wrong) My 95 Quad 4 has it...
http://fazeshift.org/pics/albums/userpics/10001/Dcp00522.jpg

[03GrandAmGT]

Matt95GT,
Found it and the other connector as shown in the picture, it was located about 2 inches inside the harness not readily accessible as what is shown in your picture. Is it possible to put a fuel pressure test port on this engine??

Thanks
JD

[Matt95GT]

Matt95GT,
Found it and the other connector as shown in the picture, it was located about 2 inches inside the harness not readily accessible as what is shown in your picture. Is it possible to put a fuel pressure test port on this engine??

Thanks
JD

I guess someone at the factory got a little tape happy on your harness. :lol:

Unfortunately it lacks a Schrader valve to test, and there's no easy way to connect a pressure gauge otherwise. There is some GM specialty tool though... I believe it connects to the quick disconnects between the fuel hoses and hardlines near the firewall. I've also seen people use an early Quad 4 fuel rail / FPR, since those do have a port, or even get extra hoses from a junkyard to splice a test gauge onto.