Spring/Strut package

[MXculture]

Hey guys...need some quick tips if ya dont mind sharing some info.

My car has 200,000km on it. It's alot considering I dont think the struts or springs have ever been changed by the looks of them. The ride is becoming VERY horrable. I hit anykinds of bumps around corners the car bounces into whichever way im turning or whichever way the force is pulling it. Looking to put a little 1.25'' drop on it...nothing to big considering I still have to drive the car in the winter and the roads are horrable. Now as for the struts, I was on PFYC.com and the normal replacement struts said they dont have the dampering characteristiques to stop the "pogo" effect from perfomance aftermarket springs. Will the Eibach 1.25'' lowering springs with KYB factory replacement struts give my car a pogo effect...or do I have to buy the adjustable KYB AGX sport struts if I go with performance springs?

Considering the city roads are bad and we have bad winters here in northern ontario...will dropping my car reduce any handling in the winter and such? I wont be plowing snow cuz they plow the roads whenever it snows...but I do have to drive on thick snow covered roads time to time. I know the combo will definantly improve the handling of my car drasticly...but will the 1.25'' drop reduce handling and traction in the winter? And if I do drop it, do I need adjustable struts to stop this "pogo effect" the site spoke of? I want the best handling for the car for all the traveling I do for my job. Thanks guys...your information will be highly appreciated. I have to order this stuff next week. Again, thanks.

[jonnythan]

You might need new control arm bushings too, btw. There are some vertically-mounted rubber bushings that are subjected to a lot of stretching and compressing. As they loosen up over time, the control arm tends to move more and more under steering forces, making the steering loose and oftentimes putting the control arm in direct contact with the frame, causing clunking, poor control, etc.

[AeR0]

what are control arm bushings worth?

[jonnythan]

They're cheap. Like $8 each in the US.

Kind of a pain to replace, though. They look like this:

http://www.partsamerica.com/product_images/aap/trw/12736_top.jpg

They fit, just by friction, into a round hole on the control arm. They need to be pressed in. Getting them out is the hard part, because the metal sleeve is often thoroughly rusted to the control arm itself.

I brought the control arms to a local machine shop and they pressed them out for about $15.

If your ball joints have seen better days and your bushings are messed up, it might be worth it to replace the control arms, bushings, and ball joints all at the same time. You can buy them as an assembled package. Dunno what prices are like in Canada, but in the US these are $50-$160 each. Rock Auto has 'em for $50.79 each, which is a hell of a good price for new control arms with new ball joints and bushings mounted.

[MXculture]

Yeah...I'm pretty sure I'm gonna re-do the hole front end. I once made a thread on here about overly-touchy steering when I first baught my GAGT. I'm pretty sure with the new springs/struts/control arms and bushings my handling, steering and performance will be back to normal. Right now my steering is retarded. When I travel for work the guys complain about the steering and handling...way to touchy and not a good car to go fast with. Especially at highspeeds, you hit any bumps and the car just wants to shift and go into a sort of speed wobble...its weird. It doesnt hug corners like people say their grand ams do.

But...back to the question I wanted answered: Eibach 1.25'' lowering springs...do I need adjustable struts with dampering "characteristiques" so that I dont get this so called "pogo affect"?. I want the best for my ride and handling since I travel alot. Like I had mentioned, we have horrable winters here and the in-town roads have more potholes then actual good road and alot of bumps. The highways are usually plowed when it snows.

Now..the other question. Will having a 1.25'' drop on my car reduce any traction in the winter time and will it decrease the cars ability to hold to the road. (not that its too good in the snow to begin with). If it reduces handling and traction in the winter..its not worth it. Any info is appreciated...hopefully someone has the answer to this cuz I'm waiting on this answer to order my struts and springs...question is...lower the car and get adjustable springs..or just get new springs and struts?

[MXculture]

IF I DONT get lowered springs...what are the best struts and springs to get?

All I need is a short answer: "no you wont need adjustable struts for a 1.25'' drop it will not pogo" or "yes you will need them because with a 1.25 inch drop it will pogo therefor needing the dampening of the adjustable strut:

then "a drop will give you better handling and traction in snow" or "a drop will reduce handling in snow."

Can someone please give me a hand...so I can order these. I would really appreciate the help. I guess people open a thread and dont see pictures they dont bother reading. I apologize if I sound rude in anyway...I would just like to get an answer before I make the order and you guys are the right people to ask...this is a Grand Am Owners Club. Hopefully someone answers and to whom ever does, Thank you. I appreciate it,

Dan.

[jonnythan]

I'd love to help you, but I really don't know.

Gabriel Ultra or Monroe Sensa-trac will be roughly the equivalent of the stock struts and perform well. I went to Gabriel Ultra from OEM after ~120k and was satisfied that they (along with new control arm bushings) restored the original feel. I hear a lot of people are fans of the KYB, but for unclear reasons.

[sush]

dropping the car will lower the center of gravity....that will help all year long. so your handling wont go down in winter.

i, Me, Personally, would go for:
eibach springs (best ride comfort) + good handling in winter OR summer.
KYB, AGX adjustable struts - lower the crap out of your car in summer. and increase the height to max for winter.

whats the confusion here?

i live in ottawa, roads are great. and pot-holes are greater, the ride will be so smooth, and i want to floor it, and as soon as i get excited, its...BOOM. BANG. GRRRR. GD-GD-GRRRR DUH, (like my sound effects? :P) just live with it man.

you need to understand the the eibach spring only drops the car by 1.25 with stock unadjustable strut setups. if you change the struts you can adjust the drop. so in winter, u will have a stiffer ride (because the eibach is a stiffer spring) but it will be at the same height since you adjust ur struts. am i making sense?

i want to get this setup. but i just cant afford it. anything will be an upgrade for me/you, so dont worry about going "wrong". its just a matter of getting whats best. so look at them individually according to how stiff you want it and how hard you drive.

[sush]

i just realized that your car has 200,000kms on it. and the thing i suggested is gonna run you $1000ish. just replace it with OEM and save your money for the next car dude, it will get rid of the squeeks..? i dunno. do what makes u happy. i wouldnt do that with my car if it wa that old. save the $$$ for possible upcoming repairs.

[jonnythan]

It is my understanding that the springs necessarily determine the ride height of the car and that struts/shocks are merely movement dampeners.

The AGX struts allow you to adjust the damping for a softer or stiffer ride, but there's no way a strut by itself can adjust the ride height.

[sush]

my bad. jonny is right. the tech diagrams they had totally confused me, because they show it from the inside, and how adjusting the knob increases and decrease the force in the shocks (the picture showed this disc moving up and down, which threw me off). i called them up and yeah, jonny is right.

[jonnythan]

Those adjustable shocks are probably quite nice for lowering springs, though. They should be able to be adjusted to get rid of any pogo effect you encounter.

[MXculture]

I have to keep this car for another 2 years. I have a horrable driving record from when I was younger. I'm 20 now, but from 16 until about a year ago I was always driving fast getting speeding tickets left right and center. I'm paying 6,000$ a year in insurance. If I get anything more expensive than my current car, imagine what I'll be paying. The car may have 200,000km on it...but its pretty immaculate. No rust, its ALL highway KM's. The car was babied plus I put on alot of KM's on it and I baby it like crazy. I'll be putting in a new motor as soon as it goes. I want to see if a GTP engine will fit in my car. I am planning to make the car look nicer and I get 40% off at a local parts store so I'm gonna see if he has any of those items listed.

[MXculture]

What about a strut tower brace? Will this improve handling and what are my best options considering the snowy winter?? Should I do both front and rear or just front? And is there the toweer brace that sits on top or is there a lower one?

I will be doing that drop on my car...so should I put some strut tower braces on aswell?