Ok I'm lost here

[Shadow-D]

Ok I'm trying to figure out what is going on with Alice's (photogirl12) car...
Her car was skipping and bucking,

I replaced the following...
Plugs
Boots
Coil packs

I tried to replace the fuel filter but it wouldn't come off and I didn't have time to really get into it.

She had the following work done...
Head gasket
head decking
valve job
water pump
new rollers for the timing chain

Her car is still sputtering but not as much however, last night it overheated in the driveway. Fans were working, I had her turn the heater on high and the temp went up faster. :???2:

I want to clear the bucking / stuttering but the overheat is concerning me. Any ideas???

[jonnythan]

I had an overheating problem that ended up being the radiator fins clogged.

I didn't know it until I removed the A/C condenser because the front of the radiator is blocked by it.

Try to get a look at the front of the radiator itself.

[spy]

it could also bea buildup of gunk somewhere, or the people who replaced the headgasket did a shitty job in torquing to spec the headbolts which might have been reused instead of replaced.

[biggnome]

Was the coil "cover" replaced? I didn't see it mentioned. That is generally a good place to start.

[Shadow-D]

No we haven't changed the cover, I was told not to waste my money. Coils, Boots and plugs should have solved it.
Side note: It hasn't stuttered sense it warmed up out :???2:

[biggnome]

It could have been water in the fuel. On the coil cover, that is generally the first thing that goes out on that motor. I believe the black ones were the bad ones and were replaced by the white ones.

Tim

[Shadow-D]

Ok it has a white one but it has not been changed sense she bought the car in 01.
It was a rental from Southern NJ :( That might have a lot to do with it.

[Shadow-D]

I just realized something, I didn't put her car info in the original post :slap:

It is a...
1998 GASE 2.4 with 114k miles

[jonnythan]

So did you check the radiator fins directly?

[Shadow-D]

Not yet, it's been a little too chilly for me out. I'll be looking at it tomorrow along with a few other things like replacing the pass side window regulator and fuel filter.
it's still overheating. Level looks fine and the thermostat looks like it's new but i will look at that more closely.
I have noticed that the car overheats when at slower speeds or parked so I'm thinking the fins are *ok* to a point, some might be blocked but I'll get to that tomorrow.

[rixGAphx]

Seems to me you've got an old-fashioned overheating problem, without loss of coolant.
Since the WP is new, then the rest of the system must be checked:
* Is t'stat opening?
* Are radiator hoses free of obstruction?
* Is radiator air flow obstructed by dented fins or bug debris?
* Is radiator coolant flow obstructed by builtup scale or DexCool sludge?

There are two sources of heat: Engine, and auto tranny.
* A lean-running engine runs hotter, as well as stutters noticably at idle; O2 sensor *should* read the leanness at higher rpm's, and enrichen the mixture appropriately.
* A tired TC, or one in which the TCC is no longer operating, slips like a mofo, and all the wasted energy becomes heat in the tranny fluid, dumped into the radiator at the tranny cooler lines.
* Similar for a tranny with slipping bands or clutches, and leaking pistons: The 'lost' energy becomes heat in the fluid.

If the 'heater' were actually on 'Defrost' when it was turned to 'hi', then that also turned the AC on (as a dehumidifier) which added greater heat load to the radiator (since the air flowing to it was warmed thru the AC condenser).

Anyhow, I suspect a very cruddy radiator interior, rather than (or in addition to) excessive heat being generated by a lean engine and/or an old auto tranny (if the tranny is indeed auto).

This may have been the root cause of the head failure (overheating leading to warpage and subsequent gasket leakage).

[Shadow-D]

Rick I think you just might be on to something here!
Car was an old rental from Southern NJ and the trans is slipping, We just kinda figured it was just a beat tranny but now I'm not so sure reading your idea.
I understand the TC or TCC is a trans control of sorts but I'm not sure what it does. I will look in to that tomorrow as well.
Thanks
Darrin

[Matt95GT]

I would start with ignition system troubleshooting for the 2.4:

spark plugs (age, proper gap, brand - use stock AC Delco platinum plugs only, other brands will cause problems)
coil housing - check for signs of arcing or cracks
check plug boots for deterioration
bad connections to IDI module, etc
After that, coils and IDI module would need to be tested.

Also suspect: primary O2 sensor, clogged/weak fuel system.

As for overheating, my suspects would be radiator, t-stat, water pump (hopefully not if it is new)



I believe the black ones were the bad ones and were replaced by the white ones.


That's correct... although the car should have come with a white one - IIRC the issue with the black ones was discovered in the mid-90's.

[Shadow-D]

I would start with ignition system troubleshooting for the 2.4:

spark plugs (age, proper gap, brand - use stock AC Delco platinum plugs only, other brands will cause problems)
coil housing - check for signs of arcing or cracks
check plug boots for deterioration
bad connections to IDI module, etc
After that, coils and IDI module would need to be tested.

Also suspect: primary O2 sensor, clogged/weak fuel system.

As for overheating, my suspects would be radiator, t-stat, water pump (hopefully not if it is new)

Spark Plugs are brand new, I double checked the gap and they are AC Delco platinum

Coil Housing is the one that was on the car, was dirty so I cleaned it.

Boots are brand new, Xact Ignition Wire Product

IDE Module UNKNOWN, I'll look at that again to be sure the connections are tight.

Coils are Brand New GP Sorensen

O2 Sensor, No codes listed.

Fuel System, cleaned with 3 tanks of Lucas Upper Cylinder Lubricant / Injector Cleaner.

[Matt95GT]

O2 Sensor, No codes listed.


No codes doesn't indicate the O2 sensor is good. A worn sensor won't necessarily set codes... it will misreport the A/F ratio causing the engine to run too lean or too rich.

[mikekanzler]

you prob already thought of this but did you change the coolant temp sensor (i think that is the name of it)? i know that before i changed mine it would overheat at longer stoplights but as soon as i took off it was ok

[jonnythan]

It's worth pointing out that on the 98, the fins on the radiator, hidden behind the condenser, are much more narrow and prone to clogging than the fins on the condenser.

"I have noticed that the car overheats when at slower speeds or parked"

I'm going to grin when you spend 10 minutes out there with the car pulling the condenser out of the way and see the rad clogged with dirt and crap, just like mine was ;)

[photogirl12]

Just got a call from Darrin...he replaced the fuel filter (in other words, he finally got it to break free from the fuel line so he could remove it). He said that a milky white substance came out of the fuel line and a black substance came out of the filter. He is now draining some tranny fluid out of the tranny since it was slightly overfilled. Still not sure what is going on with the whole overheating issue...the outside temperature hasn't gone up high enough to make the engine temp go up again.

[Shadow-D]

I'M DONE FOR THE NIGHT!
:lol:
The Rad is plugged so I'm pulling it out so I can clean it inside and out...
A/C needed to be recharged anyway so I just pulled the A/C lines.
The rad is fighting me all the way due to the lower trans cooler line not wanting to come out :( I'll finish up tomorrow.

[rixGAphx]

He is now draining some tranny fluid out of the tranny since it was slightly overfilled.
Still not sure what is going on with the whole overheating issue...the outside temperature hasn't gone up high enough to make the engine temp go up again.This tranny overfill might have been the major problem (in addition to the clogged rad).

An overfilled tranny ends up 'frothing' the fluid, which then doesn't produce pressure worth a damn.
The TC, bands, and clutches all slip due to the millions of tiny 'air ball bearings' floating in it, as well as the lowered pressure.

The wasted energy becomes heat, which goes into the fluid and out into the radiator.

[photogirl12]

Which would account for a lot! My poor car looks so pathetic in the driveway right now...:(

...in any case, I just want to just take a moment to thank all of you who have helped out with my car...even though a lot of you are far away you have been a huge help in pointing Darrin in the right direction to getting my poor car running right. The poor girl hasn't run right in about 2-3 years. It really means a lot to me to know there are helpful people out there! :D

[photogirl12]

**sigh** UPDATE

Darrin checked the coil cover at the lot that we go to on Friday and Saturday nights since there was someone there who has the same engine that I do. Yes, the coil cover needs to be replaced.

The horrible thing that we saw was that there was oil and coolant where the spark plugs are. So...when Darrin's car comes back from getting the LIM done AGAIN, it looks like mine is going in to get this checked out along with the ticking from the tensioners in the timing chain not being properly adjusted.

[Shadow-D]

That coolant still didn't have any taste to it :lol:

[photogirl12]

...scary that he tastes the fluid on my engine to see what it is...

[bballr4567]

...scary that he tastes the fluid on my engine to see what it is...

I do the exact same thing. Thats how I found out one day on my old car it was power steering fluid and not oil. :lol: :lol:

[urweak]

No we haven't changed the cover, I was told not to waste my money. Coils, Boots and plugs should have solved it.
Side note: It hasn't stuttered sense it warmed up out :???2:

the coil housing cover is usally the #1 problem of any ignition problems.

[Shadow-D]

That is deff going to be the next thing we change out

[Ralph]

darrin come to the RI meet and I'll give you a entire coil housing with the coils in it. I have way too much of this quad / TC crap laying around

[Shadow-D]

I might just do that, I was thinking about going to that one anyway. Maybe we can do that other swap we were talking about in MA.

[Ralph]

Possibly I can always give stuff to tom as well if your funds arn't there for it. Tails I need to get my ass out there and pull my system so I can have a trunk again.

Edit.

Need an ICM too?

[Shadow-D]

Not sure yet but we are starting to make plans to go to that show...