GreenFilter vs. K&N .... There IS a difference

[Wallflower]

Hey all ...

Originally one on the members had asked if there was a difference between a GreenFilter (GF) and the K&N. Without having all the information available to me, I replied that there was not any difference other than the color of the filter. I was big-time wrong.

Today, the sales rep from GF came in for an informational meeting. He brought along some samples of their filters, as well as the corresponding K&N alternative. For the most part, the following differences are not going to have any major effects, but one fact you might find interesting. I would have never considered it myself if the guy hadn't pointed it out.

First difference ... little effect ... The filter media used in the GF is a different cotton gauze than on the K&N. The noteable difference is that it allows the GF to filter a slightly smaller dirt particle, yet still maintain the high cfm airflow.

Second difference ... no effect ... The GF uses a stainless steel screen over the filter media, where K&N uses aluminum. The noteable difference is that the GF can stand up to more abuse.

Third difference ... no effect ... For you 'tree-huggers' out there, the GF cleaning kit is environmentally friendly when compared to K&N.

BIG difference ... some potential effect ... AIRFLOW!! The GF does in fact have a higher cfm than a K&N. This not a groundshaking figure, but you might find a little more butt-dyno from the GF. Due to a manufacturing process, a flat-panel GF has more filter area than it's K&N counterpart. K&N uses a high pressure injection molding process that forces the rubber making up the surround, into the filter. If you look at your K&N, notice how the black rubber 'bleeds' into the pleats of the filter. Incoming air can not flow through these areas, so your result is a loss in overall surface area to the filter and a lower overall airflow. GF uses a low pressure injection molding process that doesn't allow for this 'bleeding' effect, maintaining the full surface area and airflow of the filter.

In this picture, you will notice the 'bleed' on the sides, as well as the first pleat on the bottom. Some filters, like my own, are far worse than this one. That is all lost filter area. K&N example (http://www.pickleloaf.com/solara/images/scimages/kandnview.jpg)

In this picture, you see there is no 'bleed' on a GF. GF example (http://www.turnermotorsport.com/image/filter/intake_green_filter_LG.jpg)


So yes, there is a difference. Will it produce noticeable HP gain? Probably not, but 1 or 2, maybe. Seeing this is enough for me to decide to get rid of my new K&N though. Anyone want it ... 4 weeks old, still clean ... $30 ??

[ferran586]

Wow...Thanks for that info. I thought they were identical except for the color too. I was always leaning more towards the GF anyway because I like the color. But now that I know Green Filter IS better I will definately get it. Thanks.

[Jason Lesbirel]

Stainless vs. aluminum....hmmm.....well, speaking strictly for myself, the air filter in my car has never been exposed to a situation where it would be abused, making that arguement a moot point. However, the aluminum has amazing heat-dissipation properties, whereas the SS does not, so the aluminum isn't going to add heat to the intake charge as it passes through.

Tell ya what - let's see a dyno run, independantly confirmed, showing an improvement over a K&N filter - if it is better, then surely this isn't an unreasonable request.

[Wallflower]

Originally posted by Jason Lesbirel
However, the aluminum has amazing heat-dissipation properties, whereas the SS does not, so the aluminum isn't going to add heat to the intake charge as it passes through.

Tell ya what - let's see a dyno run, independantly confirmed, showing an improvement over a K&N filter - if it is better, then surely this isn't an unreasonable request.


We are talking about the stock filter replacement, in the stock airbox, not a WAI style cone. This big heat transfer that you think is taking place is negligible. You have a constant airflow over this screen for one, and it is no bigger than the window screen in your bedroom window, so tell me just how much heat that it can possibly be holding? If either K&N, or GF were concerned with this heat transfer, both would most likely have engineered a large heat sink onto the filter to compensate for it.

As for the dyno, help yourself. You want it, you are more than welcome to do it with your Pontiac. I am working with a race engine builder who will be putting a GF, a K&N, and another off-brand filter to the test on a SBC circle track motor in the coming week. This is strictly being tested for airflow purposes to illustrate to my customer there is a true difference.

If you want to see the airflow difference yourself, find a retailer that has the K&N Demo machine. Have them put a GF up against the K&N. With the rear port set right, the ping-pong ball will drop to the bottom with a K&N in place, just like it would with an OEM filter. When you put the GF in, the ping-pong ball goes right to the top.

[TA^Guy]

I more or less agree with Jason on this one.

I can't recall which magazine it was but they tested different brands of top name performance filters, and then tested different sizes.

The test was on a engine dyno on a warmed over Chevrolet 350. Results were minimal though brands. The Holley and K&N were about the same with the others slightly behind by 1hp or so.

The big difference was size. Now you might think the larger it is the better. Not so. Working up from a 14x2" element the 14x4" showed the best torque and hp numbers with the 14x6" slightly behind. Those double stacked 14x4"s people think look cool actually hurt performance, and the tiny 8x2"s resulted in about the same numbers as a 14x2.

Testing the Green filter to the K&N on a chassis dyno would probally show no difference. On a engine dyno you might see a 1hp or less difference either way.

For filteration, cotton gauze is not a great filter. The reason you have to oil them is so dirt particals will actually stick to it. Want better filteration due to living in a dirty enviroment, then paper elements are the only way to go. Except you have to trade off filteration for performance.

[BBT]

I would rather see some proper independent comparison testing of the two before I would take a sales rep's word for it. I could cut and stack a portion of my 3M Filtrete Hypoallergenic electrostatic furnace filter in my car and make all kinds of claims for it.

[Gimli]

Yeah, talk to a K&N rep and see what HE has to say. I'm sure they'll find some other arguments to say THEIR filters are better.

Something like "our oil grabs more particle" or "our high pressure injection molding" makes the link stronger so it's less likely to rip.

Sales reps are just that, sales reps. Paid to showcase the advantages of their products, not the shortcomings.

[Greed4Speed]

Here is a link to a test that was done. It doesn't include the green filter though.

http://www.geocities.com/mikegoodies3/inductiontest.html

[Themeneea]

were can i get a Apexi Power Intake Filter. more power and beter filtration

[LoneRangers15]

What retail stores in the US sell Green Filter? K&N is sold everywhere, including Autozone and NAPA.

[Wallflower]

That is another beauty to GreenFilter ... they don't whore themselves out like K&N. You can get GF at most of your local performance shops that are privately owned. Yes, there are some Autozone/PepBoys chain stores that do carry them, however it is limited cuz they don't wan't to piss off the K&N Gravytrain.

Call 1-800-Autoparts. The automated system should tell you the closest dealer that can order a GF for you.

[JoeyK]

My friend has a GF. I'd say one is no better than the other. I've always had good luck w/ K&N & besides, I had already boughten my K&N before I had heard of the GF. Since they're pretty much equal I can't see pulling my K&N to shell out more cash for a GF. (Wouldn't make any sense) All in all I'd say the GF is a good product but if you're like me, or alot of other people, you go w/ what you know & have had good luck with.

[LoneRangers15]

Do the people who use the K&N filter use the K&N sealing grease or just white lithium grease? $10 is a little steep for a tube of grease.

[JoeyK]

Grease? Are you talking about the filtercharger kit? If that's what your talking about it's some kind of oil to recoat the filter media after you've washed it.

[BBT]

Sealing grease? For what? If the damn thing is built for the car and the airbox it is meant to fit in, then it should fit properly. If it doesn't then it is a badly designed product. Sealing grease. Yeah, right! More like lubricating grease because something is going somewhere it wasn't meant to fit. Bend over, K&N has something for you, if that's the case.

If you need to buy 'sealing grease' from K&N for their air filters, then that says they haven't designed their product to fit the air boxes correctly. If that's the case I'm going back to $5 paper filters. This is a joke!

[Jason Lesbirel]

Originally posted by Wallflower
We are talking about the stock filter replacement, in the stock airbox, not a WAI style cone. This big heat transfer that you think is taking place is negligible. You have a constant airflow over this screen for one, and it is no bigger than the window screen in your bedroom window, so tell me just how much heat that it can possibly be holding? If either K&N, or GF were concerned with this heat transfer, both would most likely have engineered a large heat sink onto the filter to compensate for it.

I was aware of the type of filter you were talking about. And you were the one that mentioned the mesh difference. And since it is a drop-in, and not a cone, then what abuse could you be talking about? So, while my heat transfer arguement may not be entirely valid, neither is your "filter abuse" theory.

Originally posted by Wallflower
As for the dyno, help yourself. You want it, you are more than welcome to do it with your Pontiac.

With all-do respect, you, sir, are the one claiming the GreenFilter is superior to the K&N drop-in - I simply stated that I would like to see your claim backed up. I personally have a CAI w/ custom-designed aluminum heatshield. But making an unsubstantiated claim without providing evidence to back it up is irresponsible.

Come to think of it, you say that GreenFilter claims to flow better than a K&N, AND filter better as well - can I assume that they have some kind of testing to prove that, or should I just "help myself" and seek out a lab to test the filter media?

Originally posted by Wallflower
If you want to see the airflow difference yourself, find a retailer that has the K&N Demo machine. Have them put a GF up against the K&N. With the rear port set right, the ping-pong ball will drop to the bottom with a K&N in place, just like it would with an OEM filter. When you put the GF in, the ping-pong ball goes right to the top.

I would, but unfortunately I prefer to actually see test results than a floating ping-pong ball, or ,say, a small spinning fan in a tube - plus, since GF doesn't "whore" itself around ( lol ), it's not currently available in Canada.

[Jason Lesbirel]

Originally posted by BBT
.... Bend over, K&N has something for you, if that's the case.


Then it's not so much K&N at that point, and more like KY..... :evil2:

[LoneRangers15]

Originally posted by BBT
Sealing grease? For what? If the damn thing is built for the car and the airbox it is meant to fit in, then it should fit properly. If it doesn't then it is a badly designed product. Sealing grease. Yeah, right! More like lubricating grease because something is going somewhere it wasn't meant to fit. Bend over, K&N has something for you, if that's the case.

If you need to buy 'sealing grease' from K&N for their air filters, then that says they haven't designed their product to fit the air boxes correctly. If that's the case I'm going back to $5 paper filters. This is a joke!
It is used to prevent the filter from sticking to the airfilter housing. I know that when my filter heats up the rubber gets sticky and it is hard to remove from the housing.

[BBT]

Never had the problem with the filter sticking to the housing.

[sunrunner_pei]

Originally posted by BBT
Never had the problem with the filter sticking to the housing.

Me either. :idunno:

[GrandAmageGT]

I've taken out the filter to clean it and put it back in. Taken the filter out to rotate it, put it back in and have taken it back out to check my airbox and never once did I have the least problem with it sticking. If your filter is sticking then perhaps it is defective, or there is some sort of extreme heat entering the airbox. :shrug:

[LoneRangers15]

My airbox is metal and sits right on top of the throttle body. Yours is plastic and off to the side.