View Full Version : How big can I go on 16's
I'm looking at a set of tires and want to know just how big of a tire I can can get away with on the stock 16" rims on a '98 GAGT. The tires I'm looking at are Nokian WRG2's
cranch
04-18-2008, 12:13 PM
id just stick with stock. that way there shouldnt be any problems.
sunrunner_pei
04-18-2008, 12:15 PM
225/50R16 is about as big as I'd go. Same circumference/diameter as the stock 205/55R16, so your speedometer/odometer won't be off and it shouldn't affect acceleration or mileage.
Stock rims are 6.5 wide , so 225 is the MAX , even that's pushing it if you ask me .... ;)
cranch
04-19-2008, 02:06 PM
or u could just leave the tires stock
or u could just leave the tires stock
But they look so.... clown-car like... I'd really like to fill up the openings a bit more. Taller and thinner is what I'm thinking. Less rubber on the road is good by me and makes for better MPG too. My Mario Andretti days are long past and when that sort of mood strikes, I get out the driving machine.
Taller tires will throw off your speedo and odometer , as well as change your final drive ratio , not recommended .
sunrunner_pei
04-23-2008, 07:15 AM
Taller tires will throw off your speedo and odometer , as well as change your final drive ratio , not recommended .
Ditto. Add in the probability of rubbing in turns and over large bumps (tire = fender = not good) and I say you have a recipe for disaster.
Want to fill out the fenders? Get lowering springs and do it right.
Taller tires will throw off your speedo and odometer , as well as change your final drive ratio , not recommended .
That's actually what I was thinking. Same road speed with lower RPM's and less rubber on the road should translate into better MPG on the highway. I can live with the speedo being out by a couple of KM/H. As long as I know it's out and by how much, say setting the cruise at 98 KM/H to achieve the 100 KM/H, it works for me.
Ditto. Add in the probability of rubbing in turns and over large bumps (tire = fender = not good) and I say you have a recipe for disaster.
That's why I'm looking to find out how big I can go. Not just in height, but width also.
Want to fill out the fenders? Get lowering springs and do it right.If I was after better handling "and" looks I'd consider going this route. Not an option I'm willing to consider. The car isn't worth the cost.
sunrunner_pei
04-23-2008, 11:23 AM
That's actually what I was thinking. Same road speed with lower RPM's and less rubber on the road should translate into better MPG on the highway. I can live with the speedo being out by a couple of KM/H. As long as I know it's out and by how much, say setting the cruise at 98 KM/H to achieve the 100 KM/H, it works for me.
If you do all highway cruising, then you might see an increase in economy. Otherwise, the new final ratio will make it more difficult to accelerate, causing you to use more fuel to get up to speed, negating any savings to be had.
It's your car, do what you want. But just know that it isn't a smart thing to do.
That's why I'm looking to find out how big I can go. Not just in height, but width also.If this is really what you want , try a 215/55/16 , speedo will be out a couple of clicks and it will be slightly taller .... ;)
:D Hold on .... i assumed this was for a GA ? If it's the 66 Pontiac , Forget It :lol:
If you do all highway cruising, then you might see an increase in economy. I know I'll see an increase in highway MPG.
Otherwise, the new final ratio will make it more difficult to accelerate, causing you to use more fuel to get up to speed, negating any savings to be had.
I'm one of the few on the road that actually understands the meaning of the words "speed limit" and observes said speed "limits". Around town I'm the easy on the accelerator, easy on the brakes, take my time getting where I go type that everybody loves to hate in their big rush to sit at the next red light getting 0 MPG while they wait for me to catch up and cruise through on the green. :D With the recent 20% hike in fuel prices, fuel economy is all the more important to me.
It's your car, do what you want. But just know that it isn't a smart thing to do.That's a matter of opinion I suppose. I firmly believe that these cars are far "over-tired" for daily driver use. If your wanna-be last name is Andretti you may need tires with this sort of foot-print, but I sure don't for my daily driving needs. The wide rubber on these cars is all about looks and "dry" performance that the average joe simply doesn't need.
Know anybody that plows snow? Ask them if they'd prefer narrower or wider rubber on their truck and why. A wider tire will sit up on the snow more and lose traction whereas a narrower tire will get down in the snow more, hopefully to solid ground underneath. Same deal with water. It's called hydro-planing.
Trust me, I have my reasons, all well thought out, for wanting taller and narrower rubber on this car.
If this is really what you want , try a 215/55/16 , speedo will be out a couple of clicks and it will be slightly taller .... ;)
I can live with the speedo being out. Have you tried those tires under a gagt or do you know anyone else who has? I can handle a little bit of wheel well scrubbing on tight parking lot manouvering.
:D Hold on .... i assumed this was for a GA ? If it's the 66 Pontiac , Forget It :lol: Uh, no. The 66 isn't in question. I'm looking at tires for a 98 gagt. Performance isn't an issue for me with this car. The 535i handles my occasional desire for an adreneline rush. The ga was recently purchased as a grocery getter.
sunrunner_pei
04-24-2008, 07:35 AM
I know I'll see an increase in highway MPG.
I'm one of the few on the road that actually understands the meaning of the words "speed limit" and observes said speed "limits". Around town I'm the easy on the accelerator, easy on the brakes, take my time getting where I go type that everybody loves to hate in their big rush to sit at the next red light getting 0 MPG while they wait for me to catch up and cruise through on the green. :D With the recent 20% hike in fuel prices, fuel economy is all the more important to me.
That's a matter of opinion I suppose. I firmly believe that these cars are far "over-tired" for daily driver use. If your wanna-be last name is Andretti you may need tires with this sort of foot-print, but I sure don't for my daily driving needs. The wide rubber on these cars is all about looks and "dry" performance that the average joe simply doesn't need.
Know anybody that plows snow? Ask them if they'd prefer narrower or wider rubber on their truck and why. A wider tire will sit up on the snow more and lose traction whereas a narrower tire will get down in the snow more, hopefully to solid ground underneath. Same deal with water. It's called hydro-planing.
Trust me, I have my reasons, all well thought out, for wanting taller and narrower rubber on this car.
:shake:
If you know all the answers then why are you asking? Stop talking to me like I'm an idiot and put whatever damn tire you want on there. You don't need our permission nor our approval to do what you're going to do anyways. Go grab a measuring tape and figure it out. I'm sure you're capable of doing that just as well as any of the rest of us. :roll2:
99GrandAMSE
04-24-2008, 03:18 PM
:funny:
I have a couple 4.50x21 off the Model A you can use if you want :lol:
Seriously, you can't honestly believe you are going to see sufficient enough extra mileage to over come to how unsafe you are going to make your car, do you? If you do, may I recommend a properly signed Will before heading out on the highway and taking the average offramp :shake:
Next topic, please :D
TA^Guy
04-24-2008, 10:28 PM
But they look so.... clown-car like... I'd really like to fill up the openings a bit more. Taller and thinner is what I'm thinking. Less rubber on the road is good by me and makes for better MPG too. My Mario Andretti days are long past and when that sort of mood strikes, I get out the driving machine.
Sorry I think big fat sidewalls look more Clown Car like. Ever see the cars Micky Mouse drives?
Tall thinner tire may mean less rubber on the road but it also means less dry traction, less cornering stability, more sidewall deflation, and rubbing.
That's actually what I was thinking. Same road speed with lower RPM's and less rubber on the road should translate into better MPG on the highway.
Yes and worst MPG in the city. Taller tire also means less torque multiplication, lowering the rotational tire ratio to engine speed. Meaning it will take more effort to move your vehicle from a dead stop.
That's why I'm looking to find out how big I can go. Not just in height, but width also.
If I was after better handling "and" looks I'd consider going this route. Not an option I'm willing to consider. The car isn't worth the cost.
You previously mentioned highway fuel economy incress with taller tires.
With lowering springs your highway fuel economy would be greater than with taller tires. Lowering a vehicle reduced air traveling under the vehicle where most aerodynamic drag occurs. Not to mention lowering a vehicle incrsses high speed stability and handling cornering.
I know I'll see an increase in highway MPG.
Yeah you'll see maybe a 1mpg at the absolute most on the highway, but like I said you'll loose that everytime you pull away from a stop.
Know anybody that plows snow? Ask them if they'd prefer narrower or wider rubber on their truck and why. A wider tire will sit up on the snow more and lose traction whereas a narrower tire will get down in the snow more, hopefully to solid ground underneath. Same deal with water. It's called hydro-planing.
Trust me, I have my reasons, all well thought out, for wanting taller and narrower rubber on this car.
So are we talking snow tires or just basic all seasons?
Snow tires are better narrow, yes its true. However not because it "sits up on the snow less"... If your theroy was correct, getting traction would be as easy as spinning them a little, but that isn't what it's about, because even below that blacktop will still be slippery, or ice covered. The reason they work better is because they apply more pounds per square inch.
As stated do whatever you want. If you're so intelligent about everything then you should aready know how to do the messurements to figure out what size will work on it.
BTW, next time you ask for help don't get upset when people give don't give you the advise you wanted to hear.
:shake:
If you know all the answers then why are you asking? Stop talking to me like I'm an idiot and put whatever damn tire you want on there. You don't need our permission nor our approval to do what you're going to do anyways. Go grab a measuring tape and figure it out. I'm sure you're capable of doing that just as well as any of the rest of us. :roll2:
I'm asking because I want to know how tall of a tire I can get under the car. For some silly reason I assumed that perhaps one of the guru's such as yourself may have already done so, rather than assuming that because GM designed it that way it is the only way to go.
If you can't or don't want to answer my question, why bother replying in the first place? Tahnks for your help. I'll get a tape out tomorrow and do just that.
:funny:
I have a couple 4.50x21 off the Model A you can use if you want :lol:
Seriously, you can't honestly believe you are going to see sufficient enough extra mileage to over come to how unsafe you are going to make your car, do you? If you do, may I recommend a properly signed Will before heading out on the highway and taking the average offramp :shake:
Next topic, please :D
Ever see those yellow signs on a ramp that post a safe exit speed? Probably not, not doubt you are going too fast to take the time. Know why they are there? I do. But then I'm a professional driver who is supposed to know these things.
Whatever you say Mario.
Sorry I think big fat sidewalls look more Clown Car like. Ever see the cars Micky Mouse drives? Not my point. Some like the look of low profile sidewalls and I don't happen to, especially if the tires look to small for the car. Pardon me for saying so.
Tall thinner tire may mean less rubber on the road but it also means less dry traction, less cornering stability, more sidewall deflation, and rubbing. Here you are partially correct but mostly not. As I said, I'm no Mario Andretti and see no need to take corners at high g's just because I can. At least not in this car. It's sidewall deflection BTW, and higher sidewall deflection provides a smoother ride. Rubbing will only occur if the tires are incorrectly sized, which is exactly the point of this exercise.
Yes and worst MPG in the city. Taller tire also means less torque multiplication, lowering the rotational tire ratio to engine speed. Meaning it will take more effort to move your vehicle from a dead stop. I've never denied that. But you also have to know that I am a "take it easy" type of driver who sees no need to race from stop light to stop light. If I feel a desire to "street race" I'll get in the car that I can do it with.
You previously mentioned highway fuel economy incress with taller tires.
With lowering springs your highway fuel economy would be greater than with taller tires. Lowering a vehicle reduced air traveling under the vehicle where most aerodynamic drag occurs. Not to mention lowering a vehicle incrsses high speed stability and handling cornering. Very true, but you also have to realize that I am not willing to spend that sort of money on a grocery getter. I have air dams on my bimmer, and the semi I drive also has them for just that reason.
Yeah you'll see maybe a 1mpg at the absolute most on the highway, but like I said you'll loose that everytime you pull away from a stop. Lemme put it to you this way. Ever see a "big truck" with low profile tires anymore? Know why that is? Anything you can do to keep RPM lower at a given speed WILL increase MPG. It's scientific fact.
So are we talking snow tires or just basic all seasons? On a truck used for plowing snow, I would certainly expect snows.
Snow tires are better narrow, yes its true. However not because it "sits up on the snow less"... If your theroy was correct, getting traction would be as easy as spinning them a little, but that isn't what it's about, because even below that blacktop will still be slippery, or ice covered. No, snow-plowers use narrower tires because wider tires tend to ride up on the snow and cause lost traction.
The reason they work better is because they apply more pounds per square inch.Here's where you contradict yourself. Think about wet performance and how I feel these cars are "over-tired". More pounds per square inch equals less chance of hydro-planing, correct? My theory of these cars being over-tired is due to the false sense of security they provide on dry pavement. Get into the wet and you're far more likely to "lose it" on wider tires than you are on perfectly sufficient narrower tires as I all too often see happen.
As stated do whatever you want. If you're so intelligent about everything then you should aready know how to do the messurements to figure out what size will work on it. I will do what I want, regardless of stated opinions. I never asked for opinions. What I asked was "how big of a tire can I get on the car". I could have asked "how tall of a tire" but no doubt in the end I would have found myself in the same war of words.
BTW, next time you ask for help don't get upset when people give don't give you the advise you wanted to hear. I wasn't upset until I started getting flamed for expressing "my" opinion. I was offered advice that I didn't happen to (and still don't) agree with. What's the harm in that?
GregFarz78
04-25-2008, 05:59 AM
But then I'm a professional driver who is supposed to know these things.
Whatever you say Mario.
You're a professional driver driving a 98 grand am :???:
oh and a 86 535i has a 3.4L with 182hp
sunrunner_pei
04-25-2008, 06:58 AM
You're a professional driver driving a 98 grand am :???:
oh and a 86 535i has a 3.4L with 182hp
He's a truck driver with an attitude, Greg. Nothing more. Oops, I should have called you Mario. My bad.
sunrunner_pei
04-25-2008, 07:00 AM
:funny:
I have a couple 4.50x21 off the Model A you can use if you want :lol:
Seriously, you can't honestly believe you are going to see sufficient enough extra mileage to over come to how unsafe you are going to make your car, do you? If you do, may I recommend a properly signed Will before heading out on the highway and taking the average offramp :shake:
Next topic, please :D
Don't worry, Mario. This guy's a professional. :roll2:
sunrunner_pei
04-25-2008, 07:16 AM
I'm asking because I want to know how tall of a tire I can get under the car. For some silly reason I assumed that perhaps one of the guru's such as yourself may have already done so, rather than assuming that because GM designed it that way it is the only way to go.
If you can't or don't want to answer my question, why bother replying in the first place? Tahnks for your help. I'll get a tape out tomorrow and do just that.
All of us gurus know not to run oversize tires, therefor none of us have experience with that subject. So to that end, yes, you will have to research this yourself the old fashioned way. Seriously, you're the first one out of over 22,000 members to want to do this for the reasons you stated.
As for bigger tires INCREASING fuel economy, I think you had better do a little more research. If that was the case, then why is it every off-roader who puts on taller tires sees the opposite result? Lower RPM doesn't automatically give better mileage, unless you're talking about a purely linear power transfer, which gasoline engines simply don't give. More power (and efficiency) is found at certain RPM 'sweet spots' that are different from one engine to the next. Chugging along at 1000 RPM up a hill IS NOT going to get you better mileage than going up that same hill at 2000 or even 3000 RPM with that car.
Sure, you're not talking about running 35" tires on your car, but the same theories apply. But then, perhaps if you left your know-it-all attitude at the door you might learn something.
99GrandAMSE
04-25-2008, 02:44 PM
Ever see those yellow signs on a ramp that post a safe exit speed? Probably not, not doubt you are going too fast to take the time. Know why they are there? I do. But then I'm a professional driver who is supposed to know these things.
Whatever you say Mario.
Interesting reply ... that's really good, a "professional" driver who wants to bastardize his car to the point of possibly being unsafe for some hypothetical increase in gas mileage :shake: ... anyway, I am done beating around the bush, Mr. 535 so I'll say this in simplistic terms ... TAKE A HIKE!!! ... you are just another arrogant BMW owner who likes to think he knows everything, or better yet, likes to try and make others think that he does ... I'll give you a piece of advise, your shit stinks just like anyone else so grow up and realize not everyone is naive enough to listen to your crap ... normally I would just lock this thread but what the hell, I encourage you to reply another time or two as I think the membership deserves a good laugh ... oh, by the way, here is a set of 40" that you should try, I bet he gets 80+ MPG with those and my God, I bet he doesn't notice any decrease in performance or driving ability either :roflmfao:
TA^Guy
04-25-2008, 05:02 PM
Not my point. Some like the look of low profile sidewalls and I don't happen to, especially if the tires look to small for the car. Pardon me for saying so.
And pardon us for saying our opinion, because obviously you are the only one who is correct.
Here you are partially correct but mostly not. As I said, I'm no Mario Andretti and see no need to take corners at high g's just because I can. At least not in this car. It's sidewall deflection BTW, and higher sidewall deflection provides a smoother ride. Rubbing will only occur if the tires are incorrectly sized, which is exactly the point of this exercise.
Oh, I am oh so sorry, I had a typo and misspelled something therefor I must have no clue what I am talking about.
You don't have to be a washed up race car drive to benefit from better handling. Lets say some jerk in a big truck cuts you off and you make a quick maneuver to avoid him, I personally would like the idea that my family and I are riding in a vehicle that is ready to handle situations like this and not making my vehicle handle worst than it did the day it left the dealership.
I've never denied that. But you also have to know that I am a "take it easy" type of driver who sees no need to race from stop light to stop light. If I feel a desire to "street race" I'll get in the car that I can do it with.
But even "take it easy" drivers like yourself can't change the laws of physics. Increasing the tire diameter will require the vehicle to use more energy (read: fuel) to get moving.
But then I'm a professional driver who is supposed to know these things.
"Supposed to", but just because you are paid to drive doesn't mean you know everything either. BTW, how do you know what members here are trained drivers and which aren't. Do you know what advanced driving courses I have taken? I didn't think you did. You shouldn't be so arrogant to think you are the only one with a "professional driving" background. I assure you, there are many of us on this forum with CDLs and other class licenses.
Very true, but you also have to realize that I am not willing to spend that sort of money on a grocery getter. I have air dams on my bimmer, and the semi I drive also has them for just that reason.
$190 is less than the cost of four new tires the last time I checked. Plus it would increase the safety of your vehicle as well.* Read above about vehicle handling during evasive maneuvers.
Lemme put it to you this way. Ever see a "big truck" with low profile tires anymore? Know why that is? Anything you can do to keep RPM lower at a given speed WILL increase MPG. It's scientific fact.
That all depends on the vehicles/engines volumetric efficiency, some motors may have better economy at 2000rpm than at 1800rpm. So unless you have proof of this being a so-called "scientific fact", technically it's not.
On a truck used for plowing snow, I would certainly expect snows.
So you use your GA for plowing snow?
No, snow-plowers use narrower tires because wider tires tend to ride up on the snow and cause lost traction.
Trust me, 10mm of a contact patch won't make or break if a 6000lbs+ truck sits or sinks on snow. As I stated, if 'breaking through' the layer of snow was the only concern one could just blip the throttle a few times, problems solved... but that isn't the case. ..ANd lets just assume that was in fact true... Then what happens when there is ice below the snow? Because in most cases packed snow + friction + sub freezing temperatures = icey surface below the snow.
It's about applying more pressure to the slick surface, not what is below it.
Here's where you contradict yourself. Think about wet performance and how I feel these cars are "over-tired". More pounds per square inch equals less chance of hydro-planing, correct? My theory of these cars being over-tired is due to the false sense of security they provide on dry pavement. Get into the wet and you're far more likely to "lose it" on wider tires than you are on perfectly sufficient narrower tires as I all too often see happen.
And this is where you should start reading things more clearly.
Please point out where I contradict myself? Did I say wide tires where better in rain or snow... Nope don't think so. However while we are on the subject, a wider tire with proper syps to draw away water will handle a water covered roadway better than a basic narrow tire not designed to. If narrow tires where the only way to go in the rain then icons like your buddy Mario there would be racing with bicycle tires when it rains.
I wasn't upset until I started getting flamed for expressing "my" opinion. I was offered advice that I didn't happen to (and still don't) agree with. What's the harm in that?
Funny because before your name calling or comments I did see anyone 'flame you', just offering suggestions and having a discussion about your some of your so called factual claims.
Actually I see it the other way around, you assuming you're the only "professional driver" and calling others Mario Andretti is pretty arrogant especially when you know absolutely nothing about these people, their drivings skills, or how they drive day to day.
Talking down to your kids may work, but when you're around people you know nothing about you might not want to assume your the most intelligent one in the building, because chances is you won't be.
I just hope because you're cheap and upset about the hike in fuel prices that the changes you do possibly making your car less safe than Pontiac built it doesn't injure my family or someone elses.
sunrunner_pei
04-25-2008, 05:52 PM
I had a thought while driving like Mario Andretti on the way home from work today (in my Vibe, which coincidentally has the same size (205/55R16) tires as his '98 GT). Why change the tire diameter when he can just drive 2 KM/H slower on the highway? That alone would have the exact same effect as a slightly taller tire with regards to mileage.
Then again, there are a million other things one could to to help mileage. The OP has never bothered to mention the actual mileage he's getting. Keeping the car in perfect tune will also have more of an affect on mileage than his oversize tires too. Keeping the injectors clean, running good spark plugs at the proper gap, new plug wires, proper tire inflation, clean air & fuel filters, running the proper octane fuel, ensuring compression is within spec, replacing the O2 sensor, ensuring the exhaust is free of obstructions, and not carrying around any excess weight, the list goes on and on.
Hell, 535i, even going on a diet would probably do more to help your mileage than running oversize tires.
sunrunner_pei
04-25-2008, 06:00 PM
Another thought: If mileage is your primary concern, why not opt for a low rolling resistance tire like the Bridgestone B381, Nokian NRT2 or Sumitomo HTR 200?
TA^Guy
04-25-2008, 09:43 PM
..and then air them up to 40psi.
cardude007617
04-28-2008, 03:56 PM
wow this guy is an idiot....
Greengo 07
04-29-2008, 11:21 AM
i think you three scared him off, lol, good job,
TheTrader
04-29-2008, 02:33 PM
i think you three scared him off, lol, good job,
'bout time.... maby he realized we are not just some young punks that he can convince of anything....
the professional driver response to Kellys post really made me laugh....
this was an interesting read... gave me a good chuckle at the end of a long day here at work :)
Another thought: If mileage is your primary concern, why not opt for a low rolling resistance tire like the Bridgestone B381, Nokian NRT2 or Sumitomo HTR 200?
Actually I just had a set of Nokian WRG2's put on the car. Based on price, availability and warranty issues I went with the stock sized 205/55's, as much as I'd much preferred to have gone with a taller tire and smaller foot print.
TA^Guy .. and then air them up to 40psi. And why would I do that?
TA^Guy Then what happens when there is ice below the snow? Because in most cases packed snow + friction + sub freezing temperatures = icey surface below the snow. Ever hear of tire chains?
TA^Guy It's about applying more pressure to the slick surface, not what is below it.My point exactly. Now go back to physics class and pay attention. More weight on a smaller area == more PSI.. Simple physics.
Greengo 07 i think you three scared him off, lol, good job Scared me off? Hardly. I don't fight with unarmed individuals and hadn't seen anything factual to bother with last time I was around.
GregFarz78 You're a professional driver driving a 98 grand am As a matter of fact I am considered (by some) to be a professional driver who just happens to have bought a GAGT at a good price. Although I'm beginning to think I may regret that choice sooner or later.
TA^Guy Lets say some jerk in a big truck cuts you off and you make a quick maneuver to avoid him, I personally would like the idea that my family and I are riding in a vehicle that is ready to handle situations like this and not making my vehicle handle worst than it did the day it left the dealership. For starters, lets just say that I am dumb enough to put myself in such a situation that a "big truck" could cut me off. No, on second thought lets not since I drive one for a living and know better. Give the big guys lots of room an you've got nothing to worry about in the first place. And being dumb enough to sit beside one is taking your life in your hands. Ever see the results of one of those wheels coming off? I have. Ever see a brake chamber explode? I have. In my experience, more often than not you won't win a fight with a big truck and trying to fight for "your place on the road" with one is being a jerk.
That said, am I to believe (according to you) that my next door neighbours 98 Old's Achieva running on 205/70-15's is unsafe?
sunrunner_pei As for bigger tires INCREASING fuel economy, I think you had better do a little more research. If that was the case, then why is it every off-roader who puts on taller tires sees the opposite result? Lower RPM doesn't automatically give better mileage, unless you're talking about a purely linear power transfer, which gasoline engines simply don't give. More power (and efficiency) is found at certain RPM 'sweet spots' that are different from one engine to the next. Chugging along at 1000 RPM up a hill IS NOT going to get you better mileage than going up that same hill at 2000 or even 3000 RPM with that car. Aww come on. Surely you can think your way through that one. The bigger tires are to handle rough terrain and simply due to the fact that they weigh so much more and put so much more rubber on the ground, they cost more to run. Check it out with any racer and ask why they want less unsprung weight. Weight aside, wider tires "generally" put more rubber on the ground and cost more in lost power due to friction. As for what you are talking here, you're comparing apples and grapes. $1.20 a friggin litre for gas is what it's all about with me. The general concensus is that it'll hit $2.25 within a year. I've already told you that I do the speed limit "at best", minimize my use of the brakes (which are a waste of horsepower BTW) as much as possible and I have the car tuned to the best of my abililities. The only variable I have left in the equation is tires, albeit a moot point now.
WTF is it with you guys? Did you all attend G.W.Shrub's school on how to avoid scientific fact or something? Rolling resistance requires horsepower to overcome, there is no denying that correct? A narrower tire "should" exert a smaller footprint on the road, correct? Lower rpms require less fuel into the engine and there's no denying that either, correct? So, now logically without bashing at me, tell me where I'm wrong to assume that a narrower and taller tire won't give me better overall mileage. Go ahead, make my day.
wow this guy is an idiot....
Very informative. Thanks for sharing.
'bout time.... maby he realized we are not just some young punks that he can convince of anything....
Surprise.;)
TA^Guy
05-02-2008, 05:06 PM
Wow you do go slow, took a whole week to think of some clever replies... lmao
And why would I do that?.
Well I figured it would be your nextdumb suggestion to reduce rolling resistance.
Ever hear of tire chains?.
Yeah old, unsafe method to gain traction on packed snow.
Ever head of studless snow tires?
My point exactly. Now go back to physics class and pay attention. More weight on a smaller area == more PSI.. Simple physics..
Your original point was that 10mm was going to be the deciding factor if a truck sits on top of snow on sinks into it. However since you can't grasp a simple concept your posts tend to pull away from the original statement.
Packed 4"s snow below a tire will still be pack 4"s of snow below a tire no matter how wide it is. The pounds per swquare inch so the tire bites better on teh packed snow/ice, NOT to reach the pavement below.
I think you need the physics lesson if you think it'll just 'sink' to the road surface.
As a matter of fact I am considered (by some) to be a professional driver who just happens to have bought a GAGT at a good price. Although I'm beginning to think I may regret that choice sooner or later. .
You said it, "by some".
For starters, lets just say that I am dumb enough to put myself in such a situation that a "big truck" could cut me off. . .
No, on second thought lets not since I drive one for a living and know better. Give the big guys lots of room an you've got nothing to worry about in the first place. And being dumb enough to sit beside one is taking your life in your hands. Ever see the results of one of those wheels coming off? I have. Ever see a brake chamber explode? I have. In my experience, more often than not you won't win a fight with a big truck and trying to fight for "your place on the road" with one is being a jerk.
No, for starters lets just say you are dumb enough to completely miss the point.
However lets work together on this. I'll change around the scenario and you can read slowly, even twice if you have too. I know we go too fast for you here, so take your time I don't want to point to pass you by.
Lets say you are going down the highway in your car and a old man in a BMW comes along side you. He's too busy trying to calculate his tire size, engine rpm, and mileage and goes to change lanes without seeing you next to him. Traffic closely behind you because you aren't keeping up with traffic you quickly move to the right to avoid the accident. The quick maneuver is more than your tall oversize tires can handle safely and cause a lot of tire deflection which in turn is echoed back into the suspension of the car as oversteer and swings your car back into the opposite lane striking the BMW. All this happens within seconds.
Now here I'll spell it out for you in case you are still having a hard time.
The Point Of The Story - You don't need to drive like Mario Andretti to benefit from better handling tires. Something unexpected in your day to day moderate driving may happen and you may just need the added performance to protect yourself.
BTW, "your place on the road" is the same place everyone else has. It doesn't matter if it's a big truck or a motorcycle, EVERYONE on the road has the same rights. In fact, know it all jerkoffs in big trucks should learn that the vehicile they are driving is far more dangerous and should take that into consideration when on the road instead of trying to "take their place". I know it's hard not to over compensate in life, but get over yourself, size doesn't matter.
That said, am I to believe (according to you) that my next door neighbours 98 Old's Achieva running on 205/70-15's is unsafe?
In a quick evasive situation as discribed above, no it wouldnt be as safe as say a 215/65R15 or 225/60R15
minimize my use of the brakes (which are a waste of horsepower BTW) .
So what are you one of those old timers you have one foot on the brake one on the throttle? Because as far as Im concerned that is the only way brakes will reduce or as you say "waste" horsepower... lmao
The "waste" is from accelerating, the only waste I see here is trying to have an intelligent conversation with a close minded know it all who knows very little.
So, now logically without bashing at me, tell me where I'm wrong to assume that a narrower and taller tire won't give me better overall mileage. Go ahead, make my day.
Do you suffer from Alzheimer's? We have already explained it several times for you.
Any fraction of a increase in economy due to lower RPMs as a result of a taller tire will also be a increase in fuel consumption during acceleration as a result of the taller tire.
So unless you live right off a highway exit ramp and only do highway driving, if you do see any minimal gain at all, it wouldn't be worth the trade off for reliable and safe handling. Not in my opinion anyway, but then again by your posts you are probably the type of guy who would remove his airbags to reduce weight because you are such a good drive that you don't need them....
I think I have said about all I need to say. It's clearly obvious that you have no intentions of opening your mind and looking at things other than your one sided point of view. I think we would have better luck waiting for the Nazi's to celebrate Hanukkah with the Jewish community.
After all the debating and posturing , you got the stock size anyway . :roll2:
After all the debating and posturing , you got the stock size anyway . :roll2:
Right you are, and for reasons I had no control over. Best of all was the price. $198 street price and my cost was $124.90 each. Can't argue with an employee discount. :D
Right you are, and for reasons I had no control over. Best of all was the price. $198 street price and my cost was $124.90 each. Can't argue with an employee discount. :DGlad it all worked out ... :D
I think I have said about all I need to say. About time too. Go back to school and pay attention in physics class. Perhaps you may want to try a defensive driving course while you're in educational mode. From the sounds of it you could handle some educating in both areas.
FYI - I've got 36 years of driving and over a million miles under my belt without an accident. Can you match that record? When you think you can teach me something about how to drive, let me know. Until then, save your breath. It's easy for me to tell simply by listening to what you say that you know nothing of defensive driving and have little regard for sharing the road. In fact, I'd venture a guess from the way that you talk that you are one of the aggressive little phucks that I'd like to make into a speed bump.
Have a nice weekend Mario.
PS. Drive safely, the life you save may well be your own.
Glad it all worked out ... :D
Aye, it did.. Have to admit, these Nokians are pretty nice. Well worth the cash. Very agressive tread pattern. Can't wait to get 'em out in the wet for a serious testing. Still have a hard time with the clown car looks though. Maybe if I wasn't quite so old I'd consider lowering the car a bit. :lol:
MagusXIII
05-04-2008, 07:56 AM
About time too. Go back to school and pay attention in physics class. Perhaps you may want to try a defensive driving course while you're in educational mode. From the sounds of it you could handle some educating in both areas.
FYI - I've got 36 years of driving and over a million miles under my belt without an accident. Can you match that record? When you think you can teach me something about how to drive, let me know. Until then, save your breath. It's easy for me to tell simply by listening to what you say that you know nothing of defensive driving and have little regard for sharing the road. In fact, I'd venture a guess from the way that you talk that you are one of the aggressive little phucks that I'd like to make into a speed bump.
Have a nice weekend Mario.
PS. Drive safely, the life you save may well be your own.
Alright whoever the hell you are, we are not going to tolerate you coming to this board to troll, flame, etc. You have been here less than one month and already are beginning to cause problems with facts (professional driver???) that you cannot back up without proof. The fact that you claim to be a professional driver yet wish to cause harm to one of our members leads me to believe you are not a professional driver with 1,000,000 accident free miles. After all, that attitude is NOT what keeps a driver safe, now is it?
Oh, why did you edit your post? Did you realize just how immature you sound? Anyway, I would strongly urge that you change your tone if you wish to remain here. And since all facts here point to your being a troll, that may not come to pass anyway.
Feel free to PM me with your "professional" swearing. I could use a good object lesson in humour... :shake:
99GrandAMSE
05-07-2008, 08:31 AM
I know this thread is closed but I am going to abuse my powers ;) ... anyway, you (Mr. 535 dude) are an interesting individual :shake: ... it is amazing to me that you, a guy with supposedly that amount of experience, doesn't realize the specific difference between hypothetical or theoretical as compared to 'real world' abilities to what you are considering ... in other words, there are certain things you simply can't do and still maintain a degree of safety despite the fact it may (or may not) provide an increase in mileage when tested in certain circumstances (i.e.: a lab or ideal conditions) ... you know, there is a reason why you don't see a Model A running 60-70-80 MPH, and one of them is the type of rims and tires they have on them ... good in the mud and snow, yes, but good for manoeuvring, no :( ... regardless, I will say this, you certainly do have a polite way of being argumentative and head strong :lol: ... have a nice day :)
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