No RPM meter ! How to know when to stop ?

[goedikey]

My GA 93 has no RPM meter.

I am pretty used to having one and am wondering if sometimes I am pushing it too hard.

Sometimes, I make a very quick start rom 1rst gear climbing up to 40-50 KMh (25-35 Mph) and then 2nd gear and 3rd.

Only for a few seconds...

Is this asking too much ?

Maybe the only important thing is to make sure the engine is not overheating ?

Thanks for the advice !

[Night Wolf]

It's called a tachometer ;)

Is your car an auto, or the 5spd?

becuase if it's an auto, then you have nothing to worry about.

it is not really an issue of overheating, more of blowing it becuase of the engine turning too fast.

You can get an aftermarket tach at any parts store for about $40 and get it hooked up.

The DOHC Q4 redlines about 6800rpm

[Toutsuu]

you just need to listen too it, or get a tach. usually a shift point coincides with a certain mph, so knowing that would be good. also.

One way to find out is to push it till you bounce off the rev limiter, (someone correct me on this if his year car does not have one), and see what speed you were going, then... never do that again, about 5mph before. Generally you are safe going to 25 then 55 for 2nd or a little faster

i can almost hit 30 in first in my car and then almost get it to 60 in second, but usually i shift at 20 and 40 or something when i'm not racing but still want good acceleration. Otherwise I go 1 gear for every 10MPH, that will keep it around 2000 RPM.

[goedikey]

Hey thanks guys!

My tranny is manual.
Are you guys talking about Mph or Kmh ?

[LoneRangers15]

Does anyone know the redline for my car?

[Night Wolf]

Originally posted by LoneRangers15
Does anyone know the redline for my car?

for the 2.5..... I think it was something like 5400 or something, although not too sure

BTW, it was all in MPH

[DominionTuner]

First off you should know how to drive your car without having to look at the tachometer. Next you don't have to worry the Quad 4's, and I'm sure the other engines as well, have an over rev protection that will shut down your fuel system before you over rev your engine and do serious damage. So don't worry you won't break anything unless you get a chip to remove your governors. Which i would not recommend if your afraid to drive a car without a tach.

[TA^Guy]

Originally posted by goedikey
Maybe the only important thing is to make sure the engine is not overheating ?

Well since everyone answered just about every thing else I'djust like to note that overheating isn't your main worries when running high rpms. You should be causeful not to over rev it due to throwing a rod, or damage to your valvetrain and other critical internals. High rpms will cause valve float espeically with stock valve springs, put some milage on the motor and that is the least of your worries.

[mtnagel]

Originally posted by DominionTuner
First off you should know how to drive your car without having to look at the tachometer. Next you don't have to worry the Quad 4's, and I'm sure the other engines as well, have an over rev protection that will shut down your fuel system before you over rev your engine and do serious damage. So don't worry you won't break anything unless you get a chip to remove your governors. Which i would not recommend if your afraid to drive a car without a tach. I have a similar set of questions as to this topic: I understand that you shouldn't ever go over the redline, but is there a certain RPM that you don't want to regularly go over? I ask because my girlfriend is hard on the gas pedal on her 4 cylinder and she gets it up to about 4,000 rpms or more before it shifts (redline is around 6,000) and it sounds like the engine is going to explode (okay, not that bad, but it's loud). I try to keep it less than 3,000 and it never seems like the engine is going crazy then.

Will you hurt the engine by constantly going over 4,000 rpms before it shifts? (Both automatics by the way).

[DominionTuner]

It's easier to over rev a stick than an automatic. If it's GM your also going to have a rev limiter that will cut the fuel system off before you over rev too much. If you run it hard when the engine is cold, it's not really a good idea. At least wait till your engine is runing at normal temp. before you start runing hard. You can damage internals when the motor isn't warmed up. Again refering to the rev limiter(or governer which ever you want to call it). It will shift before it even gets to the fuel cut off point in an automatic, That's the only thing about GM, most of their vehicles are designed to either shut off the fuel system or shift into the next gear before damaging something. The GP's are all auto, if you put it in 2nd gear and try to over rev the car will automatically shift into a higher gear to prevent itself from any damage. If you want to damage a car by over reving the motor, get an import, no governors at all. Maybe speedo and it's set EXTREMELY high compared to our Domestics.

[kamikaz16]

mtnagel:

If you were going to damage your engine at 4000RPM, then the rev limiter would have been placed at 4000RPM. Its not, so therefore you can stick it at 4 grand all day long without problems, other than horrible gas mileage. Above the limiter, the camshaft can't always keep in sync, and your pistons may end up hitting the valves (severe damage to engine resulting). The cams have no trouble keeping up below the limiter.

[Night Wolf]

ahhhh stupid POS, I had this long post, but then Netscape closed and I lost everything, stupid junk....

...anyway, to sum it up quickly, generally the faster the engine runs, the less good for the enigne it is..... everything moves faster, and the engine works harder. That's why NASCAR engines have to be rebuilt after each race, running at 8k rpm all day really takes a toll on it. if your just streching out your shifts like that, it's fine, but running at a high rpm all the time is not good in the long run.

[goldfinger]

Originally posted by kamikaz16
mtnagel:

If you were going to damage your engine at 4000RPM, then the rev limiter would have been placed at 4000RPM. Its not, so therefore you can stick it at 4 grand all day long without problems, other than horrible gas mileage. Above the limiter, the camshaft can't always keep in sync, and your pistons may end up hitting the valves (severe damage to engine resulting). The cams have no trouble keeping up below the limiter.

Darn.... so my pulling out of a parking lot and hitting 4K-5K RPM isn't good? lol

It may not be......... but it sure as hell pisses the cops off cuz I floor it to get to 35Mph (speed limit) then let off. :D

[RocketFast321]

My thoughts v4 can be rev a little hard than v6. Good point to not go over in a v6 is 4rpm. A v4 is 5rpm. And beside that where the power stops anyway.

:penny:

[LoneRangers15]

Originally posted by RocketFast321
My thoughts v4 can be rev a little hard than v6. Good point to not go over in a v6 is 4rpm. A v4 is 5rpm. And beside that where the power stops anyway.

:penny:
Those V4's are badass aren't they!:P

[goldfinger]

They were V4's?

I thought all of the 4 bangers were Inline 4's.....

[Night Wolf]

V4's are used in sprinter cars (those dirt cars that go in circles, with the weird looking tops)

every other 4banger has always been inline.... perosnally off hand, I don't know why.

and besides, the number of cylinders an engine has has NOTHING to do with it's performance, how many rpm it can go to or when the correct shift points are.

[LoneRangers15]

I know I am just being a smartass. The automakers are probably going to develop a V4 just because I'm a dick. I doubt it will be GM though because they have the Ecotec and the new I5 Vortec.

[1995grandam]

It may not be......... but it sure as hell pisses the cops off cuz I floor it to get to 35Mph (speed limit) then let off.

exhibition of acceleration, its illegal, cops like to give tickets for it...

EDIT:lol, i love saying that kind of stuff like that, you should hear me say it, its funny. my friends will always be telling me to do illegal stuff, and i will just be like... running a stop sign, its illegal, cops like to give tickets for it.

[sunrunner_pei]

Originally posted by Night Wolf
every other 4banger has always been inline.... perosnally off hand, I don't know why.

Off topic, but not all 4 cylinder engines are inlines... You forget about the horizontally-apposed (boxer) engines of Porshe, Volkswagon and Subaru (and probably others). :)

[antirice]

Originally posted by LoneRangers15
I know I am just being a smartass. The automakers are probably going to develop a V4 just because I'm a dick.

yes, you are :D but I also want to be included in the development of the scat v4 being found in passenger cars

[Night Wolf]

Originally posted by sunrunner_pei
Off topic, but not all 4 cylinder engines are inlines... You forget about the horizontally-apposed (boxer) engines of Porshe, Volkswagon and Subaru (and probably others). :)

Gotta be a smartass, don't ya :D

j/k

yes, there is also the Boxer... and I am sure another design I am laving out or something.

[Vintalage]

Originally posted by DominionTuner
If you want to damage a car by over reving the motor, get an import, no governors at all. Maybe speedo and it's set EXTREMELY high compared to our Domestics.

That is completely wrong. Imports have rev limiters and speed limiters just like domestics. What ever gave you that idea that imports don't have rev limiters? When someone is racing in an import and they reach redline, I hear the engine bounce off the rev limiter.

[BBT]

For the record, Lancia built narrow angle V4s for years. The V was so narrow they usually had one valve cover.

Lancia for years was a top World Rally car, winning many races and championships. Lancia is now owned by Fiat.

[gagt98driver]

Originally posted by Night Wolf
...anyway, to sum it up quickly, generally the faster the engine runs, the less good for the enigne it is..... everything moves faster, and the engine works harder. if your just streching out your shifts like that, it's fine, but running at a high rpm all the time is not good in the long run.

My thoughts exactly. No matter what the redline is, constantly running the engine at high RPM is going to be worse for the engine over the long run.

For example what would happen should you take two identically equipped new cars with the same engine and tranny and a redline of 5,500 RPM. Both are maintained on the exact same schedule (i.e. oil changes every 3K mi with the same brand of oil and filter, coolant changes when required etc.), and drive them both the same number of miles each day on the same routes for 50K mi or so.

The difference being, Car A is driven in a moderate manner. When taking off from stop lights the driver rarely gets the tach over 3 grand, usually keeping it right between 2,200 to 2,800 when accelerating, although very rarely he does get into it a bit getting up into 4,500 RPM range or more.

Car B is driven in the manner that Mtnagel's girlfriend drives. Taking off from a stoplight is a 4000RPM and above affair each time and gear shifts are always on the high side of the RPM range.

After 50K mi, its not hard to guess which car is going to be running better and perform better. Car A will most likely run and perform just like the day it left the showroom. Car B will probably have lost a noticable amount of its performance and most likely has some internal damage. Its probably smoking and possibly has a minor coolant leak somewhere.

That's one reason neither I nor my family will buy used cars that we know have been owned by younger people, since they are more likely to rag the living shit out of the engine.

[goldfinger]

Err, I didn't mean to start a V4 war! :eek:

I know they exist, I should have pointed out that I was referring to all of the 4 bangers in our GA's. :)

[RocketFast321]

Let's all get SHO(s) and rev it to 7k all day :D

edit
when I was talking the 4 and 6 Cylinder motors, I'm talking about the ones in Grand Ams. 2.3,2.4,3100,3400

[Night Wolf]

Originally posted by gagt98driver
My thoughts exactly. No matter what the redline is, constantly running the engine at high RPM is going to be worse for the engine over the long run.

For example what would happen should you take two identically equipped new cars with the same engine and tranny and a redline of 5,500 RPM. Both are maintained on the exact same schedule (i.e. oil changes every 3K mi with the same brand of oil and filter, coolant changes when required etc.), and drive them both the same number of miles each day on the same routes for 50K mi or so.

The difference being, Car A is driven in a moderate manner. When taking off from stop lights the driver rarely gets the tach over 3 grand, usually keeping it right between 2,200 to 2,800 when accelerating, although very rarely he does get into it a bit getting up into 4,500 RPM range or more.

Car B is driven in the manner that Mtnagel's girlfriend drives. Taking off from a stoplight is a 4000RPM and above affair each time and gear shifts are always on the high side of the RPM range.

After 50K mi, its not hard to guess which car is going to be running better and perform better. Car A will most likely run and perform just like the day it left the showroom. Car B will probably have lost a noticable amount of its performance and most likely has some internal damage. Its probably smoking and possibly has a minor coolant leak somewhere.

That's one reason neither I nor my family will buy used cars that we know have been owned by younger people, since they are more likely to rag the living shit out of the engine.

One of the great thing about buying your cars from Florida with old people driving them :D

seriously though, my car with 80k miles, the enigne, engine bay and whole car in general look brand new.... plus the way old people drive then, I doubt they ever drove the car fast enough to get into over drive :D

[TA^Guy]

Originally posted by RocketFast321
My thoughts v4 can be rev a little hard than v6. Good point to not go over in a v6 is 4rpm. A v4 is 5rpm. And beside that where the power stops anyway.

:penny:
Doesn't matter how many cylinders it has. 4, 6, 8 10 or 12.
Ever look at a Autometer Monster tachomemter and notice they can go up to 10,000rpms. These were out far before this import fad. Check out some professionally built motors and ask the owners where they rev to.

There are many other variables that will determin a safe 'redline'.
Examples, weight of the rotating assembally. There is alot of force on the crank when a piston changes directions. The heavier the piston, connecting arm, wrist pin, etc the more mass it has to handle. Another example tighter tolerances. Closer specs on things like bearing clearances, balanced cranks, etc.
Originally posted by sunrunner_pei
Off topic, but not all 4 cylinder engines are inlines... You forget about the horizontally-apposed (boxer) engines of Porshe, Volkswagon and Subaru (and probably others). :)
Thanks Shawn. Glad to see someone beat me to it. IMO, some of the best four cylinder cars are in boxer formation.

[BBT]

Actually, engines with more cylinders can rev higher, because they are smoother, due to being more inherently balanced in the first place. This reduces internal stresses. V12s and V16s are very smooth running engines. Back in the grand old days of classic automobiles (1920s & 1930s) V12s and V16s were the domain of the premium cars because they were so smooth. They didn't use cushioned engine mounts then, the engine bolted directly to the chassis, so any engine harshness would be felt in the car.

Plus these engines will generally have smaller cylinders and pistons for a given displacement, also contributing to their ability to rev higher.

[1995grandam]

Actually, engines with more cylinders can rev higher

so is that why my friends mach 1 (v8) redlines at 5700 and an s2000 (i4) redlines at 8000?

[Night Wolf]

Originally posted by BBT
Actually, engines with more cylinders can rev higher, because they are smoother, due to being more inherently balanced in the first place. This reduces internal stresses. V12s and V16s are very smooth running engines. Back in the grand old days of classic automobiles (1920s & 1930s) V12s and V16s were the domain of the premium cars because they were so smooth. They didn't use cushioned engine mounts then, the engine bolted directly to the chassis, so any engine harshness would be felt in the car.

Plus these engines will generally have smaller cylinders and pistons for a given displacement, also contributing to their ability to rev higher.

I will have to disagree....

It seems to me, 4bangers can rev alot higher then V8's it seems like almost any 4banger on a production car, even an econobox, the minium redline is 6000-6500.

the Quad4 on my GA redlines at 6800rpm indicated on the tach

my 4.9 V8 redlines at 5000rpm indicated by many people, and looking at the tach of a similar year SeVille or Eldorado with the 4.9

Back in the early 30's, like you were saying, Cadillac had 3 engines.... the V8 was their cheap enigne designed for efficentcy, the V12 was the "normal" engine and the V16 was just there to say, yeah, I have the best car on the road (and dispite the great depression, Cadillac still coudln't keep up with the V16 demand) Anyway the engine was only good to 3500rpm or so.....obviously their technology and keeping things all balenced etc... was nowhere near as it is today, but smaller engines of the time were good for another 1000-1500rpm (alot back in the day)

I am too tired to go on, but generally speaking (and obviously there are exceptions to NASCAR or custom built engines) but how many production V8's do you see redlining above 6400rpm? (besides the DOHC North Star, which was designed for high rpm use) then tell me how many normal 4bangers go well into 6000, close to, or even above 7000..... the Toyota Matrix is something like 8200rpm (granted it dosn't get much power before that, but this is about rpm not power) what does the new LS6 redline around? I think it is like 6k or so.

[BBT]

Originally posted by 1995grandam
so is that why my friends mach 1 (v8) redlines at 5700 and an s2000 (i4) redlines at 8000?

Maybe because Ford doesn't want to build the 4.6 modular engine to rev that high. Technically, it should rev higher than it does, but the Ford engineers didn't go that route. Honda did. The Honda S2000 uses smaller cylinders and pistons, less mass flying around than inside the V8. But given the same configurations and such, the V8 should be able to rev higher. Don't misunderstand my statements about the number of cylinders to mean that just because it HAS more cylinders it WILL rev higher.

If 4Cyls were so good at revving and producing power, then F1 engines would be 4 cyls, wouldn't they? Seems like Ferrari has been winning for years and years with V12s and now V10s. And before that the Ford Cosworth V8s were the dominant engine. Hondas current F1 engine is a V10. I don't think there has been a winning F1 4 cyl in many years, if not decades. And how high do you think those engines rev? Try 10,000 rpms or more, especially for the V12s.

Originally posted by Night Wolf
I will have to disagree....

It seems to me, 4bangers can rev alot higher then V8's it seems like almost any 4banger on a production car, even an econobox, the minium redline is 6000-6500.

the Quad4 on my GA redlines at 6800rpm indicated on the tach

my 4.9 V8 redlines at 5000rpm indicated by many people, and looking at the tach of a similar year SeVille or Eldorado with the 4.9

Back in the early 30's, like you were saying, Cadillac had 3 engines.... the V8 was their cheap enigne designed for efficentcy, the V12 was the "normal" engine and the V16 was just there to say, yeah, I have the best car on the road (and dispite the great depression, Cadillac still coudln't keep up with the V16 demand) Anyway the engine was only good to 3500rpm or so.....obviously their technology and keeping things all balenced etc... was nowhere near as it is today, but smaller engines of the time were good for another 1000-1500rpm (alot back in the day)

I am too tired to go on, but generally speaking (and obviously there are exceptions to NASCAR or custom built engines) but how many production V8's do you see redlining above 6400rpm? (besides the DOHC North Star, which was designed for high rpm use) then tell me how many normal 4bangers go well into 6000, close to, or even above 7000..... the Toyota Matrix is something like 8200rpm (granted it dosn't get much power before that, but this is about rpm not power) what does the new LS6 redline around? I think it is like 6k or so.

Comparing pushrods to OHCs. Big difference. And newer technology brings improvements. So I stand by my statements that more cylinders, all other things being equal, will rev higher. These are just things I have read in a number of automotive publications.

[1995grandam]

Maybe because Ford doesn't want to build the 4.6 modular engine to rev that high. Technically, it should rev higher than it does, but the Ford engineers didn't go that route. Honda did. The Honda S2000 uses smaller cylinders and pistons, less mass flying around than inside the V8. But given the same configurations and such, the V8 should be able to rev higher. Don't misunderstand my statements about the number of cylinders to mean that just because it HAS more cylinders it WILL rev higher.

mk, i think i misunderstood you, i guess your meaning theoretically they are capable of revving higher. which i have no idea about. i just thought you meant they DO rev higher. the reason they dont rev higher like imports is because they they make all their power at lower rpms, unlike imports who dont make any power until higher rpms.

[Toutsuu]

Originally posted by 1995grandam
mk, i think i misunderstood you, i guess your meaning theoretically they are capable of revving higher. which i have no idea about. i just thought you meant they DO rev higher. the reason they dont rev higher like imports is because they they make all their power at lower rpms, unlike imports who dont make any power until higher rpms.

that sight is the stupidest thing i have ever had the mispleasure of looking at

[1995grandam]

that sight is the stupidest thing i have ever had the mispleasure of looking at

what sight?

i guess you mean my explanation, and yeah, i guess i kinda messed that up. mk, what i meant was, domestics have a thing called torque, imports dont know what torque is. domestics dont need to rev as high because all their power is made from the low - mid high rpm range. imports make most of their power higher in the rpm band, explaining why they rev higher and use a thing called vtec.

and im not even sure if i got what i was trying to explain across in that. its kinda hard for me to explain what im thinking, but you would probably be too stupid to understand it anyway, and so im not going to try anymore.

[Red98GT]

Originally posted by 1995grandam
so is that why my friends mach 1 (v8) redlines at 5700 and an s2000 (i4) redlines at 8000?

Uhh...My Mach 1 redlines at 6800 and the autos redline at 5800...

[Night Wolf]

Originally posted by 1995grandam
what sight?

i guess you mean my explanation, and yeah, i guess i kinda messed that up. mk, what i meant was, domestics have a thing called torque, imports dont know what torque is. domestics dont need to rev as high because all their power is made from the low - mid high rpm range. imports make most of their power higher in the rpm band, explaining why they rev higher and use a thing called vtec.

and im not even sure if i got what i was trying to explain across in that. its kinda hard for me to explain what im thinking, but you would probably be too stupid to understand it anyway, and so im not going to try anymore.

Yeah, it is soo funny at school we are tlaking about cars and I am talking with some kids that love the imports, so they are like, yeah what is the redline of your engine, I say 5000rpm, they are like 5000? that's nothing, no wonder why the car is slow, mine is 7000. So I say, well, my V8 has 275ft lbs. of tourqe at 300rpm, bery low in the rev band, they look at me and are like, umm ok, so then they say, well I have a V-Tec, and I say, that's cool, I like the simplicity and reliability of my old style pushrod, then they look at me like WTF is he tlaking about... then they are like, yeah well, V8, you get like 12mpg, I get 28 around town, I am like, that' snot bad, but I get 20mpg around town, adn they look at me like I am crazy again.....it goes on and on

Some people in this world just have no idea about things, and repeat stuff they hear, but do not know what means.
I personally love touqre, and hp dosn't mean much to me (sure it means alot, but tourqe IMO is far more important) so when I am talking to a friend with a VR6 he is like yeah I have 180hp, I said I have 200, but how much tourqe do you have, and he is like ???? I dunno..... I like pushrods, I like gobs of power (tourqe) low in the rev band....as soon as you hit the gas, in fact, I guess I am a true American :D

A car like mine would just go crazy from a stoplight to stoplight kind of race, but on the highway, I dunno, as alot of imports have their power (and don't weigh much) at a high rpm, so that would be where they are better, I guess I'll have to see..... my car runs 0-60 in about 8sec and does the 1/4 in 15.5sec....so it's not the fastest thing aorund (new STS can do the 1/4 in 14.8-15.2, but the NorthStar would be crazy on the highway as it has 300hp at 6200rpm.....

[BBT]

Originally posted by Night Wolf
[B]...Some people in this world just have no idea about things, and repeat stuff they hear, but do not know what means. ...
/B]

You said it. So nice to see a young guy who has educated himself about cars in general and the ones he likes in particular.

Just pat them on the head and tell them how happy you are for them they have their little cars. ;)

[1995grandam]

Uhh...My Mach 1 redlines at 6800 and the autos redline at 5800...

yeah, i was thinking of the 2005 mustang, pics show redline of 5700. ive never even sat in my friends mach 1. but you know whats crazy? my friends dad has the only mach 1 in town. his mom has a brand new 03 gt. well a week ago our ford dealership got in a blue mach 1. well, my friends mom is going to trade in her gt for the blue one, so they can have the only 2 in town. I HATE THAT FAMILY!

[Red98GT]

Originally posted by 1995grandam
yeah, i was thinking of the 2005 mustang, pics show redline of 5700. ive never even sat in my friends mach 1. but you know whats crazy? my friends dad has the only mach 1 in town. his mom has a brand new 03 gt. well a week ago our ford dealership got in a blue mach 1. well, my friends mom is going to trade in her gt for the blue one, so they can have the only 2 in town. I HATE THAT FAMILY!

I wish I had that kind of money. Just sent in my first payment last week....don't think I'll be getting a new car for at least another 71 months :agree:
That GT is nothing compared to the Mach.....but I'd sure as hell hate to see what kind of loss shes going to take..

[1995grandam]

well its also partly his dads decision... his mom has been driving the mach 1 a lot, and he does not like that... but she just loves it. and hell i would to man, 305 underrated hp... ryan likes...

[DominionTuner]

Originally posted by Vintalage
That is completely wrong. Imports have rev limiters and speed limiters just like domestics. What ever gave you that idea that imports don't have rev limiters? When someone is racing in an import and they reach redline, I hear the engine bounce off the rev limiter.

I guess you've never driven an Evo VIII, WRX Impreza, or Supra TT then?