Rumormill: GMC brand getting the axe?

[wonderbot]

Filed under: Buick (http://www.autoblog.com/category/buick/), Cadillac (http://www.autoblog.com/category/cadillac/), GM (http://www.autoblog.com/category/gm/), GMC (http://www.autoblog.com/category/gmc/), HUMMER (http://www.autoblog.com/category/hummer/), Pontiac (http://www.autoblog.com/category/pontiac/), Saab (http://www.autoblog.com/category/saab/), Rumormill (http://www.autoblog.com/category/rumormill/)
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2008/06/gmc_dealer-sign_opt.jpg (http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f70/gmi-rumor-gm-cutting-another-division-65786/#post1430834)This has been a big year for GM's organization alignment, with President Fritz Henderson opening up (http://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/01/gm-discusses-brand-strategy-opens-bag-releases-cats/) about the brand issue snafu and the appointment of four brand czars (http://www.autoblog.com/2008/04/29/gm-appoints-four-brand-czars-as-part-of-realignment-plan/). HUMMER was meant to join forces with Cadillac and Saab in a premium channel, but while HUMMER is still in the family, it's apparently been put out on the lawn (http://www.autoblog.com/2008/06/17/mahindra-keen-to-buy-hummer/). GM Inside News (GMI) reports that GM is treating HUMMER as a goner, saying that the H4 program is on life support for handover to the next buyer, and the H3 GMT-700 program is kaput.

The bigger hearsay is that GM's board is considering euthanizing GMC or Pontiac. Those two brands were to be aligned in a brand channel with Buick (PBG). Getting rid of GMC could make some kind of sense, since it's entirely brand-engineered vehicles with some of the worst mileage numbers in the fleet. Shunning Pontiac would be a surprise to us since the Solstice and G8 have given it a nice brand awareness boost and it's got some products in the pipeline. If GMC or Pontiac did go, the GM board would consider folding Saturn into the PBG channel to maintain sales volume. In corporate-speak, we believe this is called GM's "gloves off" phase. Thanks for the tip, Dan!

[Source: GM Inside News (http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f70/gmi-rumor-gm-cutting-another-division-65786/#post1430834)]
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[TA^Guy]

It was a bad ideal to get rid of Oldsmobile, now GMC?

Boot Hummer out!

[matts]

don't know if i would put Hummer out to pasture or not. there's always gonna be people who want something along those lines IMO. but i would cut it down to H1, H2, and then H3. that gives something in 3 price ranges. just limit production


getting rid of pontiac? that makes absolutely no sense to me at this point.

getting rid of GMC? wow. i can see the point kinda. all they make is trucks/SUVs, but they sell pretty good around here. i can go through town and see tons of new GMC trucks, smaller SUVs, Yukons and even Yukon Denali's

[Silversmok3]

Scrap Hummer.Gas aint gettin cheaper,and CAFE is not getting less stringent.

GMC has lots of history,but all they sell are primarily trucks. And other brand's trucks at that.Its tragic on a historic level, but really they can afford (and may need )to scrap GMC.

[bballr4567]

Well GMC has ONE vehicle that isnt badge engineered so it makes complete sense. Olds had a TON of history and even was on the road to making some better cars and it got the Axe.

Its got to stop sometime GM. You need to manage your brands WAY better then you are currently.

[trogdorpontiac]

Filed under: Getting rid of GMC could make some kind of sense, since it's entirely brand-engineered vehicles with some of the worst mileage numbers in the fleet.

in the fleet yes, but as trucks go, the Sierra does really well. my dad's '06 crew cab gets 18mpg all the time. as i see it, that's awesome for a 5-6000lb 4x4, especially when i have to baby my GA if i want to get above 22mpg.

then there's the Yukon hybrid, over 20mpg in city and highway.

[TA^Guy]

Well GMC has ONE vehicle that isnt badge engineered so it makes complete sense.

What vehicle is that?
in the fleet yes, but as trucks go, the Sierra does really well. my dad's '06 crew cab gets 18mpg all the time. as i see it, that's awesome for a 5-6000lb 4x4, especially when i have to baby my GA if i want to get above 22mpg.

then there's the Yukon hybrid, over 20mpg in city and highway.
Yeah those 2 Mode Hybrids are awesome. First full sized SUV to have a 2 Mode Hybrid.

[bballr4567]

Yea the 2 modes are damn good. Almost a 70% increase in city mileage is GREAT for a first generation hybrid.

Should of added one FUTURE vehicle. That crewcab unibody truck or something. Still way too much of the same thing going on. I truely do wonder how much it takes to operate GMC as a different brand?

The Acadia is what in Buick's lineup?? I cant figure it out and the damn site wont load. :???:

[TA^Guy]

Acadia shares it's palteform with the Saturn Outlook and Buick, correct.

Seeing as every vehicle in the line up shares a paltform I cant see where it's that expensive to maintain GMC. Atleast 75% or more of the tooling is all the same. Only real differents is the sheetmetal, but thats the cheapest hard parts to produce anyhow really.

I see it like this. Chevrolet trucks/SUVs are a blue colored truck. Bought as inexpensive work trucks, or 'play' trucks for off roading or street fun like the SS. The GMCs were slightly more expensive. Little more bright work and chrome and nicer creature comforts.

If people really want s Niche vehicle like Matt said they should eliminate Hummer brand and make the 'Hummer' a model in the GMC line. No H1, H2, H3 or whatever... Just call it "Hummer".

[Silversmok3]

Yea the 2 modes are damn good. Almost a 70% increase in city mileage is GREAT for a first generation hybrid.

Should of added one FUTURE vehicle. That crewcab unibody truck or something. Still way too much of the same thing going on. I truely do wonder how much it takes to operate GMC as a different brand?



The Acadia is what in Buick's lineup?? I cant figure it out and the damn site wont load. :???:

Buick Enclave ( I think...)

[bballr4567]

I think its not the tooling and all that is what is costing GM money.

Its all the dealerships.

The fact is that at least the Hummer brand is different. GMC has nothing that is different once under the very outside. It is all the same. Maybe add something like the Denali badge to the Chevy lineup to offer the high end vehicles over there too. I know they are HUGE money makers for GM even in the slow market considering GM just started with rebates of 4k for the big SUVs you have got to think they are making money on them still.

The next few months for GM should be REALLY interesting.

[Crazy83519]

GMC maybe sure. But Pontiac?? WTF. I know the "excitement" division is kinda drab recently but they are making a rebound and have good stylish cars that and quiet popular. Can't can them.

[RazorDX]

I don't see the sense in axing either GMC or Pontiac. I see a LOT of Pontiacs on the road that are new, as well as a lot of GMCs. I don't know how they can even consider axing their fleet sales with GMC...

[Nighthawk243]

Giving the boot to GMC is somewhat probable considering it is mostly truck/suv, and most of those truck/suv's are the badge engineer version of the Chevrolet. GM has decided that SUV's are on the way out since filling one up is costing at least 80 bucks a pop. Trying to sell an SUV is downright impossible with national averages touching $4.059/gal. As far as fleet sales go, they'll probably just send the GMC's fleet stuff to Chevrolet.

Killing the Pontiac division, however, is highly unlikely given the popularity of the G6 and Vibe, and the ever increasing popularity of the G5 as the public is becoming aware of it. Also, unlike the GMC division, alot of the Pontiac division is now equipped either with Ecotecs or several of the various GM V6's which do get decent fuel economy while not throwing power out the window completely. Only the G8 will have the option of a V8 once the Grand Prix is done.

[b2089]

Here's my issue. GMC should stay but Chevy trucks should be scaled back. Instead of brand enginering let's have actual brands that mean something.

The problem being CAFE which looks at brands (or seems to) as seperate entities. Unless GM can keep GMC and still have it's average rolled in with Chevy of GM in total, then yes GMC is going to go. CAFE right now is ignoring some trucks as "comercial" but that's changing fast.

[GMFWDFAN]

Pontiac's not going anywhere. The G6, G8, Vibe, and Solstice proved and still are proving that.

I wouldn't shed a tear if GMC left. GMC doesn't really serve a purpose except to get people to buy Chevrolets.

[RickHigginsHtbr]

I see it like this. Chevrolet trucks/SUVs are a blue colored truck. Bought as inexpensive work trucks, or 'play' trucks for off roading or street fun like the SS. The GMCs were slightly more expensive. Little more bright work and chrome and nicer creature comforts.

If people really want s Niche vehicle like Matt said they should eliminate Hummer brand and make the 'Hummer' a model in the GMC line. No H1, H2, H3 or whatever... Just call it "Hummer".

I think the H3 is a waste, keep the H1 and H2 at the GMC dealerships, and thats it. Don't brand them as a 'GMC Hummer', but just as H1 and H2.

I don't see the sense in axing either GMC or Pontiac. I see a LOT of Pontiacs on the road that are new, as well as a lot of GMCs. I don't know how they can even consider axing their fleet sales with GMC...

Around here, I'll see 10 Denali's before I see a GMC Truck.

Giving the boot to GMC is somewhat probable considering it is mostly truck/suv, and most of those truck/suv's are the badge engineer version of the Chevrolet. GM has decided that SUV's are on the way out since filling one up is costing at least 80 bucks a pop. Trying to sell an SUV is downright impossible with national averages touching $4.059/gal. As far as fleet sales go, they'll probably just send the GMC's fleet stuff to Chevrolet.

Killing the Pontiac division, however, is highly unlikely given the popularity of the G6 and Vibe, and the ever increasing popularity of the G5 as the public is becoming aware of it. Also, unlike the GMC division, alot of the Pontiac division is now equipped either with Ecotecs or several of the various GM V6's which do get decent fuel economy while not throwing power out the window completely. Only the G8 will have the option of a V8 once the Grand Prix is done.

I say get rid of the larger Chevy Truck/SUVs. Silverado or Colorado, whatevers larger, should be the largest. 1/2 of their commercial huge trucks are Chevy (C,T,and W series Trucks), keep them all GMC and make GMC the commercial fleet line. Even limit the heavier duty of the larger Chevy trucks.

Pontiacs not going anywhere, way too many sales and money to be lost if they get rid of it..

[GregFarz78]

Its pointless to have GMC they just sell rebadged chevy trucks

[bballr4567]

The more that I think about it the more sense it makes to cut out Chevy trucks and SUVs and make GMC the "big" brand. Chevy has all the cars and can still keep a couple of the SUVs but no need for ALL the trucks in the lineup.

[Silversmok3]

The more that I think about it the more sense it makes to cut out Chevy trucks and SUVs and make GMC the "big" brand. Chevy has all the cars and can still keep a couple of the SUVs but no need for ALL the trucks in the lineup.

Actually I argue for the opposite. CAFE averages will ravage any brand made up of only trucks, so unless GMC starts selling Aveo clones they'll get slammed by the government fuel economy laws.


Chevy's got a good balance of cars and trucks,while GMC is like a third wheel.

[TA^Guy]

I'd have to agree. Still sad if GMC goes. I was not happy when they axed Oldsmobile.

[89GATurbo]

See, pre-mid-80's Oldsmobile was the junior Cadillac, a cheap way to get an "expensive" car. Afterwards: Oldsmobiles became re-badged Chevrolets; Buick and Oldsmobile never had an original engine; half of Pontiacs engines were Chevrolets (pretty much the V6s); and Chevrolet re-badged their own cars.

GMC was supposed to be a nicer truck than Chevrolet, as TA^Guy said; but most people seemed to miss the fact that GMCs are all re-badged Chevrolets with nicer trims.

I say axe Buick for the simple fact: when was the last time you saw a new Buick on the road? What's the point in even keeping them around? I also say axe GMC. Instead, call them Chevrolets, and sell a nicer trim level called "GMC" for all I care.

Axe/sell Hummer. All the H3 is, is a Suburban with a stylish body. Back to the Chevrolet/GMC dispute...

Oh, and as for the Vibe, it would be nice to think it's done great works for Pontiac. But considering they have Toyota engines... ick...

I think GM's lineup should consist of Chevrolet cars and trucks (with no repeats, like Impala/Malibu; with no 10 engine selections for a single truck, like the 1500, perhaps 3 gas and 2 diesel) for the GM trucks and economy or performance cars, Pontiac as it stands for performance, Cadillac for luxury, Saturn for economy, and Saab for the hell of it.

[bballr4567]

Actually I argue for the opposite. CAFE averages will ravage any brand made up of only trucks, so unless GMC starts selling Aveo clones they'll get slammed by the government fuel economy laws.


Chevy's got a good balance of cars and trucks,while GMC is like a third wheel.

Actually GMC will do quite well considering almost every model is flexfuel and considering that the hybrid is going to be applied to the whole fleet rather soon. Not to mention the 2nd generation of the two mode hybrid which is said to better MPG by 20% or so.

[RazorDX]

Buick and Oldsmobile never had an original engine; half of Pontiacs engines were Chevrolets (pretty much the V6s); and Chevrolet re-badged their own cars.

Oldsmobile is responsible for the engine with the most horsepower ever offered in a gen 3+ Grand Am.

[Silversmok3]

Buick also had the turbo v6 too.But no vehicle or division besides the Corvette exclusively used a certain motor.Thats why the term 'Oldsmobile 4 cylinder ' is found in history books.

[RazorDX]

Buick also had the turbo v6 too.But no vehicle or division besides the Corvette exclusively used a certain motor.Thats why the term 'Oldsmobile 4 cylinder ' is found in history books.

It was still original to the Oldsmobile though, even if it wasn't exclusive to the brand.

[Nighthawk243]

Actually I argue for the opposite. CAFE averages will ravage any brand made up of only trucks, so unless GMC starts selling Aveo clones they'll get slammed by the government fuel economy laws.


Chevy's got a good balance of cars and trucks,while GMC is like a third wheel.

CAFE is getting to the point where even Pontiac has to badge engineer the Daewoo Kalos to help offset the Torrent and the G8. Apparently its supposed to be introduced in the US as the G3 (Pontiac Mexico and Canada already have it, its known as the Pontiac Wave).

[Nighthawk243]

I say axe Buick for the simple fact: when was the last time you saw a new Buick on the road? What's the point in even keeping them around? I also say axe GMC. Instead, call them Chevrolets, and sell a nicer trim level called "GMC" for all I care.


Well... I see alot of new Buicks around here, but then again... I live in the state with the second largest elderly population behind Florida (Infact, we share the old coots through the year... :lol: )


I think GM's lineup should consist of Chevrolet cars and trucks (with no repeats, like Impala/Malibu; with no 10 engine selections for a single truck, like the 1500, perhaps 3 gas and 2 diesel) for the GM trucks and economy or performance cars, Pontiac as it stands for performance, Cadillac for luxury, Saturn for economy, and Saab for the hell of it.

Saab would be there for the euro lovers. :lol: That way the Pontiac division doesn't have to pretend nearly as hard at being European (This alphanumeric system is kinda sucking when it comes to buying parts at AutoZone). :lol:

[theMessenjah44]

You don't "see new Buicks" because they haven't changed body styles in like 15 years. :P

[TA^Guy]

Axe/sell Hummer. All the H3 is, is a Suburban with a stylish body. Back to the Chevrolet/GMC dispute....
Actually it's a Trailblazer chassis.
Buick also had the turbo v6 too.But no vehicle or division besides the Corvette exclusively used a certain motor.Thats why the term 'Oldsmobile 4 cylinder ' is found in history books.
Actually that Turbo V6 was also used in the pre-84 (carburated) Turbo Buicks and Turbo Monte Carlos. Not to mention it was later used in a limited run of 1989 20th Anniversary Pontiac Turbo Trans Ams.

But prior to the C6 cars, the modern Corvettes never really had any 'exclusive' engines either except for the LT5 which was only offered in the ultra exotic ZR1 Corvettes. The Crossfire injection engine where found under the hood of the Camaros. Then the mid 80s rolled around and the Vette got the L98 motors, the IROCZ and Z28 then got the TPI topped LB9 and L98 motors. In '92 the Vette show cased a new LT1 engine, one year later the Camaro got the LT1. Same for the LS1, Vette got it in 1997, the Camaro gets it in 1998. Can't even say the new Vettes have exclusive engines because a great deal of their parts are shared with other LSx motors. One thing however was that GM did not share the chassis of their monikor Sportscar with any other vehicle, well until they designed a Y-Body Cadillac called the XLR.

Rebadging, corperate engines, etc are ways to offer 'different' vehicles (different looking to most anyhow) without a grreat deal of cost which results in helping to keep prices low.

[RickHigginsHtbr]

Actually it's a Trailblazer chassis.

Actually that Turbo V6 was also used in the pre-84 (carburated) Turbo Buicks and Turbo Monte Carlos. Not to mention it was later used in a limited run of 1989 20th Anniversary Pontiac Turbo Trans Ams.

But prior to the C6 cars, the modern Corvettes never really had any 'exclusive' engines either except for the LT5 which was only offered in the ultra exotic ZR1 Corvettes. The Crossfire injection engine where found under the hood of the Camaros. Then the mid 80s rolled around and the Vette got the L98 motors, the IROCZ and Z28 then got the TPI topped LB9 and L98 motors. In '92 the Vette show cased a new LT1 engine, one year later the Camaro got the LT1. Same for the LS1, Vette got it in 1997, the Camaro gets it in 1998. Can't even say the new Vettes have exclusive engines because a great deal of their parts are shared with other LSx motors. One thing however was that GM did not share the chassis of their monikor Sportscar with any other vehicle, well until they designed a Y-Body Cadillac called the XLR.

Rebadging, corperate engines, etc are ways to offer 'different' vehicles (different looking to most anyhow) without a grreat deal of cost which results in helping to keep prices low.

Even though shared a year or two later, when the L98 came out the FBody versions did get an undertuned chip compared to the vette... The 86.5 Vette came with aluminum heads, IIRC FBods didn't get those heads til '89.

[matts]

but they did get them down the line.

cadillac does the same thing with alot of it's features. they'll be exclusive to cadillac for several years then trickle down to the rest of GM's vehicles.

like john said, it keeps cost down dramatically.


and i think the only engines out right now that would be "exclusive" to one vehicle would be the LS7 and LS9. but the LS9 is gonna be in the CTS-V in 09 i believe

[bballr4567]

The CTS-V gets a LSA. Its a detuned and less stout motor then the LS9. It has a more restrictive intake and exhaust and isnt fully forged.