Did quick search, couldn't find concise info (o2 Sensor replacement) - Page 2

BansheeRideR350 · 11-02-2009, 03:59 AM

Def. a great product you can use it through the fuel system, through the oil or through the intake for a top end treatment. I've only used it through the fuel and through the intake both with excellent results. Give it a shot.

Jamesc · 11-02-2009, 05:33 PM

Yep, if you pop your hood, lay with your chest on the engine, the o2 sensor is right in your face. Easiest replacement ever, 1 wire unplug, unscrew the sensor and put in the new one. For easy search - o2 Sensor Replacement Quad4 -

Mechanic suggested Bosch, or AC Delco. Noticed today the mechanic drives a Sunfire too. Makes me feel secure knowing his own personal car is quite similar to my own.

BansheeRideR350 · 11-02-2009, 06:07 PM

Cool glad it worked out for you. Reset your trip and see if you got any increase in fuel economy. Keep us posted.

Jamesc · 11-03-2009, 10:51 AM

Just picked up my new o2 sensor and some new spark plug boots (old ones startin to disintegrate)

Letting my engine cool off for about 20 mins then I'm gonna spray down the old sensor with liquid wrench, disconnect my negative terminal, pop out the old sensor and plug in the new guy.

I also got some seafoam treatment. Hopefully I'll have a purring GA by the end of the day

Fella at autoparts store was telling me to buy the bosch spark plugs also, but I just changed my damn plugs under 10k ago, so I said nothanks

bballr4567 · 11-03-2009, 12:17 PM

If its running cold you might want to check your thermostat as well. It could be opening way too early and causing the car to run that cool.

Jamesc · 11-03-2009, 01:47 PM

I'll have to check the thermostat next week, my time off for the week is over

Got the SOB O2 Sensor out, ended up ripping the shit out of my knuckles before relenting and going out to buy the proper o2sensor socket LoL... made the job simple.

Fillup at the pump, before new sensor - 315 kilo from 33 Litres, just under 10L/100KM (Slightly better than last time, but I think its because I did pure highway driving for those 300k)

I'll post back with my next fillup, with my new sensor and the seafoam treatment in my current tank of gas..

So wheredo I find the thermostat?

And is it as simple a job as the o2 Sensor?

BansheeRideR350 · 11-03-2009, 05:03 PM

Thermo is sitting in the top of the coolant inlet pipe. This pipe has the lower radiator hose connected to it, and it runs under the motor and up into the water pump housing. Basically after you drain the coolant you would unbolt the pipe from the oil pan (on my 2.4 it's connected to the oil pan by a stud not sure if the same goes for yours) then its connected to the water pump housing by two more bolts which i belive you'll need an extension to go through the exhaust manifold runners to get at these bolts. I did this when i changed the water pump so the exhaust manifold was out and on the floor already.

It's not as easy as the o2 sensor job but it's not that hard in my opinion. After those two bolts are taken out that hold the pipe to the water pump housing the pipe comes down and the thermostat is sitting in the top of it with a seal. Make sure you change the seal too.

I was also thinking that about the thermostat due to how cold you said the engine was running i just wasnt sure if that was because of how cold it is up there, im in florida so i don't deal with that problem often if its running to cool down here its always the thermostat or an incorrect reading on the gauge. But as cold as it is up there it may just be that the cold air is keeping the engine a little too cool.

How was it in the warmer months..? Did it also run down to 160* and 180* while driving then too?

arthurgoboom · 11-04-2009, 09:03 AM

x2 for checking the fuel pressure regulator. As for the temps, the Q4 and 2.4L engines have a 180 thermostat in them. 175-180 is normal.

Jamesc · 11-04-2009, 10:27 AM

yea, same for the summer months, a hair above the 1/4 mark.. highest I've ever seen the temp go was the halfway mark

Gonna use my chilton's and seek out the thermostat next week, barring terrible weather.

Jamesc · 11-04-2009, 03:35 PM

Day 2 of new sensor.

Started my car up this morning, brisk morning. Car starts fine, I let it sit and idle as I light up a smoke and clean some crap outta my back seat.

Suddenly I hear my car start to 'sputter' as if its gonna die, so I move to the front and give it a little gas, gets the idle back up and keeps it steady, figure I better not sit and risk it, so I drive to work.

I leave work and start up my car, didn't let it idle as much as I had some hot food I wanted to stay hot til I got home. While pulling out I let the car drive itself for about 20metres (drive itself as in my foot off the accelerater but still creeping forwards.. While creeping the car sounds like its starting to 'sputter' out again, so i give it a touch of gas, it doesn't respond instantaneously but then gives me 'all the gas it forgot to give' with the previous touch of the gas... as if it stored the data for the amount of gas and then sent it all in one shot.

Car ran fine the rest of the drive home.

Car's idle seems to be very gentle compared the idle before I changed the o2 Sensor.

Anyone experience a similar thing? Maybe its my car getting used to the new o2 sensor?

Oh, I also added a full can of Seafoam to my last gas tank, if that matters.

Any helpful input appreciated

**sudden_impulse** · 11-04-2009, 03:52 PM

Did you disconnect the battery when you put the new o2 sensor in? Your ECM might need to be reset to relearn the fuel tables (not sure if your system works like obd2 systems do). The full can of SeaFoam on top of that could be doing it too, the 1 pint (16oz) can is made to treat 25 gallons

Jamesc · 11-04-2009, 04:08 PM

aye I disconnected the battery, mebbe i should leave it disconnected for another 10mins? Negative terminal or both?

The can of seafoam said each can was good for 30-95 litres got about 4/5 into my car (the rest spilled all over the floor)

**sudden_impulse** · 11-04-2009, 04:10 PM

I know the OBD2 PCM's need to be disconnected for 10 minutes to reset, so I don't think it'd hurt. Negative only, no need to remove both of them. The engine could be stalling because it's moving contaminants through the system, or because Seafoam doesn't have octane, so it doesn't burn like gas.

Jamesc · 11-04-2009, 04:22 PM

Yea, I'm thinking its the seafoam, can said 30-95L for the bottle, I'm starting to think it meant, 95 litres for the whole bottle, and 30 litres for 1/3 or something. Oh well, whats done is done.

See any adverse permanent effects from using too much seafoam? Within reason of course

BansheeRideR350 · 11-04-2009, 06:35 PM

I use the whole can in my galant and my GA with no sputtering...

Did you leave the negative disconnected for 10 mins then try it...i think if the ecm had an issue with the new sensor it would have tossed a code already..if this doesn't work just wait until that gas is gone and see if it does it with out the seafoam although i never had an issue using the whole can before.

Jamesc · 11-04-2009, 07:02 PM

Yea I planned on waiting until the next tank to do anything. The idle is smooth as butter now tho, does seem to 'die down' a little bit tho, as compared to before.

Was at a long stop light today with the car at about 185 Fahrenheit (Built up temp from idling) and the car just sat there, purring very gently, seems great.

Car drops to roughly 165 Fahrenheit while driving, no difference from the 90 Degree fahrenheit weather to the current 40-50

While installing the new spark plug boots, I did notice the far right cylinder spark plug (when facing the engine from the front of the car) had oil on it, not a whole lot, and the little.. bay.. down where my sparkplugs are does have a fair bit of oil... I cleaned up a good portion of it only leaving some on the surfaces for rust. Perhaps the old cracked/disintegrated boots/wires had leaked a little bit? I installed the new boots/wires by clipping them first into the aluminum covering plate, and dropping it straight down onto the spark plugs.

BansheeRideR350 · 11-04-2009, 07:12 PM

I wouldn't worry about the little bit of oil just make sure the plugs are torqued properly.

The 165* reading may just be from the cold weather as i mentioned already im really not sure, but with the temp climbing up to 185 while sitting still makes me think the thermo is fine.

Jamesc · 11-04-2009, 07:56 PM

just returned from a friends house, had to park on a good 14-16 degree angled hill, facing up the hill. Got back in car and started it up, still was pretty close to operating temp. Put it in drive and it started to sputter fairly bad, i was lightly tapping the accelerator, it almost died but then with bit more gas drove like normal.

Question, on normal startup should I see my CEL Light come on for a second or so? I've never even SEEN the CEL come on, not once that I can recall. I've had the light that is the outline of an engine come on, but never the one with that outline -and- the words 'Check Engine'. Is the outline of the motor my CEL? If not then I'm wondering if my CEL bulb is burnt out, although I would figure my mechanic would have noticed that?

BansheeRideR350 · 11-04-2009, 08:14 PM

As for your original question yes as long as it goes off after the initial light up then thats normal.

For your second question... the outline of the engine is your CEL.

Jamesc · 11-04-2009, 08:37 PM

Aha. I wish that I had known the outline was the CEL light. It's flashed on before, my car would feel like my tranny had locked up or something, happens once in a great while and goes away when I let off the gas completely and then accelerate. Popped my CEL light on but only comes on when that happens. It's happened maybe 3-5 times, figured its just an old car and everything doesnt 'sync up' sometimes.

11-02-2009, 03:59 AM	#21
BansheeRideR350 Property of GAOC Join Date: Sep 08, 2008 Member Number: 27495 Location: Florida Name: JON Sex: M Model Year: 1999 Car: Pontiac Grand AM SE Engine: 2.4L Twin Cam L4	Def. a great product you can use it through the fuel system, through the oil or through the intake for a top end treatment. I've only used it through the fuel and through the intake both with excellent results. Give it a shot. __________________

11-02-2009, 06:07 PM	#23
BansheeRideR350 Property of GAOC Join Date: Sep 08, 2008 Member Number: 27495 Location: Florida Name: JON Sex: M Model Year: 1999 Car: Pontiac Grand AM SE Engine: 2.4L Twin Cam L4	Cool glad it worked out for you. Reset your trip and see if you got any increase in fuel economy. Keep us posted. __________________

11-03-2009, 12:17 PM	#25
bballr4567 Im free at last! Join Date: Sep 21, 2006 Member Number: 17082 Location: Evansville, IN Name: Josh Age: 26 Model Year: 2000 Car: Pontiac Firebird Formula Engine: 5.7 LS1	If its running cold you might want to check your thermostat as well. It could be opening way too early and causing the car to run that cool. __________________ *GAOTW Jan 8, 2007!!*

11-03-2009, 05:03 PM	#27
BansheeRideR350 Property of GAOC Join Date: Sep 08, 2008 Member Number: 27495 Location: Florida Name: JON Sex: M Model Year: 1999 Car: Pontiac Grand AM SE Engine: 2.4L Twin Cam L4	Thermo is sitting in the top of the coolant inlet pipe. This pipe has the lower radiator hose connected to it, and it runs under the motor and up into the water pump housing. Basically after you drain the coolant you would unbolt the pipe from the oil pan (on my 2.4 it's connected to the oil pan by a stud not sure if the same goes for yours) then its connected to the water pump housing by two more bolts which i belive you'll need an extension to go through the exhaust manifold runners to get at these bolts. I did this when i changed the water pump so the exhaust manifold was out and on the floor already. It's not as easy as the o2 sensor job but it's not that hard in my opinion. After those two bolts are taken out that hold the pipe to the water pump housing the pipe comes down and the thermostat is sitting in the top of it with a seal. Make sure you change the seal too. I was also thinking that about the thermostat due to how cold you said the engine was running i just wasnt sure if that was because of how cold it is up there, im in florida so i don't deal with that problem often if its running to cool down here its always the thermostat or an incorrect reading on the gauge. But as cold as it is up there it may just be that the cold air is keeping the engine a little too cool. How was it in the warmer months..? Did it also run down to 160* and 180* while driving then too? __________________

11-04-2009, 09:03 AM	#28
arthurgoboom GAOC Addict Join Date: Jan 22, 2008 Member Number: 24683 Location: Indiana Name: Arthur Age: 29 Sex: M Model Year: 1997 Car: Pontiac Grand Am SE Engine: 2.4L Twin Cam LD9	x2 for checking the fuel pressure regulator. As for the temps, the Q4 and 2.4L engines have a 180 thermostat in them. 175-180 is normal. __________________ 1997 Pontiac Grand Am SE Coupe, 2.4L I4, Auto, Medium Blue Metallic, 78,000 miles, all stock! Latest toy: 1976 Kawasaki KZ900-A4, no sissy bar, K&N filters, fixing the minor issues as time allows, can't find a road with a high enough speed limit

11-02-2009, 05:33 PM	#22
Jamesc Frequent Poster Join Date: Aug 25, 2009 Member Number: 32101 Location: Ontario Name: James Age: 24 Sex: M Model Year: 1995 Car: Pontiac Grand Am SE Engine: 2.3L Quad4 DOHC	Yep, if you pop your hood, lay with your chest on the engine, the o2 sensor is right in your face. Easiest replacement ever, 1 wire unplug, unscrew the sensor and put in the new one. For easy search - o2 Sensor Replacement Quad4 - Mechanic suggested Bosch, or AC Delco. Noticed today the mechanic drives a Sunfire too. Makes me feel secure knowing his own personal car is quite similar to my own.

11-03-2009, 10:51 AM	#24
Jamesc Frequent Poster Join Date: Aug 25, 2009 Member Number: 32101 Location: Ontario Name: James Age: 24 Sex: M Model Year: 1995 Car: Pontiac Grand Am SE Engine: 2.3L Quad4 DOHC	Just picked up my new o2 sensor and some new spark plug boots (old ones startin to disintegrate) Letting my engine cool off for about 20 mins then I'm gonna spray down the old sensor with liquid wrench, disconnect my negative terminal, pop out the old sensor and plug in the new guy. I also got some seafoam treatment. Hopefully I'll have a purring GA by the end of the day Fella at autoparts store was telling me to buy the bosch spark plugs also, but I just changed my damn plugs under 10k ago, so I said nothanks

11-03-2009, 01:47 PM	#26
Jamesc Frequent Poster Join Date: Aug 25, 2009 Member Number: 32101 Location: Ontario Name: James Age: 24 Sex: M Model Year: 1995 Car: Pontiac Grand Am SE Engine: 2.3L Quad4 DOHC	I'll have to check the thermostat next week, my time off for the week is over Got the SOB O2 Sensor out, ended up ripping the shit out of my knuckles before relenting and going out to buy the proper o2sensor socket LoL... made the job simple. Fillup at the pump, before new sensor - 315 kilo from 33 Litres, just under 10L/100KM (Slightly better than last time, but I think its because I did pure highway driving for those 300k) I'll post back with my next fillup, with my new sensor and the seafoam treatment in my current tank of gas.. So wheredo I find the thermostat? And is it as simple a job as the o2 Sensor?

11-04-2009, 10:27 AM	#29
Jamesc Frequent Poster Join Date: Aug 25, 2009 Member Number: 32101 Location: Ontario Name: James Age: 24 Sex: M Model Year: 1995 Car: Pontiac Grand Am SE Engine: 2.3L Quad4 DOHC	yea, same for the summer months, a hair above the 1/4 mark.. highest I've ever seen the temp go was the halfway mark Gonna use my chilton's and seek out the thermostat next week, barring terrible weather.

11-04-2009, 03:35 PM	#30
Jamesc Frequent Poster Join Date: Aug 25, 2009 Member Number: 32101 Location: Ontario Name: James Age: 24 Sex: M Model Year: 1995 Car: Pontiac Grand Am SE Engine: 2.3L Quad4 DOHC	Day 2 of new sensor. Started my car up this morning, brisk morning. Car starts fine, I let it sit and idle as I light up a smoke and clean some crap outta my back seat. Suddenly I hear my car start to 'sputter' as if its gonna die, so I move to the front and give it a little gas, gets the idle back up and keeps it steady, figure I better not sit and risk it, so I drive to work. I leave work and start up my car, didn't let it idle as much as I had some hot food I wanted to stay hot til I got home. While pulling out I let the car drive itself for about 20metres (drive itself as in my foot off the accelerater but still creeping forwards.. While creeping the car sounds like its starting to 'sputter' out again, so i give it a touch of gas, it doesn't respond instantaneously but then gives me 'all the gas it forgot to give' with the previous touch of the gas... as if it stored the data for the amount of gas and then sent it all in one shot. Car ran fine the rest of the drive home. Car's idle seems to be very gentle compared the idle before I changed the o2 Sensor. Anyone experience a similar thing? Maybe its my car getting used to the new o2 sensor? Oh, I also added a full can of Seafoam to my last gas tank, if that matters. Any helpful input appreciated Last edited by Jamesc; 11-04-2009 at 03:40 PM.

11-04-2009, 03:52 PM	#31
sudden_impulse Wanna Joust? Join Date: Jul 25, 2006 Member Number: 16286 Location: Mora, MN/Fargo, ND Name: Derek Age: 19 Sex: M Model Year: 2001 Car: Pontiac Grand Am GT Engine: 3400	Did you disconnect the battery when you put the new o2 sensor in? Your ECM might need to be reset to relearn the fuel tables (not sure if your system works like obd2 systems do). The full can of SeaFoam on top of that could be doing it too, the 1 pint (16oz) can is made to treat 25 gallons __________________ Ӂ Car Domain Ӂ Kenwood KDC-X693Ӂ Phoenix Gold Xenon 600.1 Ӂ 12" AudioQue SDC2.5 Ӂ YouTube Ӂ

11-04-2009, 04:08 PM	#32
Jamesc Frequent Poster Join Date: Aug 25, 2009 Member Number: 32101 Location: Ontario Name: James Age: 24 Sex: M Model Year: 1995 Car: Pontiac Grand Am SE Engine: 2.3L Quad4 DOHC	aye I disconnected the battery, mebbe i should leave it disconnected for another 10mins? Negative terminal or both? The can of seafoam said each can was good for 30-95 litres got about 4/5 into my car (the rest spilled all over the floor)

11-04-2009, 04:10 PM	#33
sudden_impulse Wanna Joust? Join Date: Jul 25, 2006 Member Number: 16286 Location: Mora, MN/Fargo, ND Name: Derek Age: 19 Sex: M Model Year: 2001 Car: Pontiac Grand Am GT Engine: 3400	I know the OBD2 PCM's need to be disconnected for 10 minutes to reset, so I don't think it'd hurt. Negative only, no need to remove both of them. The engine could be stalling because it's moving contaminants through the system, or because Seafoam doesn't have octane, so it doesn't burn like gas. __________________ Ӂ Car Domain Ӂ Kenwood KDC-X693Ӂ Phoenix Gold Xenon 600.1 Ӂ 12" AudioQue SDC2.5 Ӂ YouTube Ӂ

11-04-2009, 04:22 PM	#34
Jamesc Frequent Poster Join Date: Aug 25, 2009 Member Number: 32101 Location: Ontario Name: James Age: 24 Sex: M Model Year: 1995 Car: Pontiac Grand Am SE Engine: 2.3L Quad4 DOHC	Yea, I'm thinking its the seafoam, can said 30-95L for the bottle, I'm starting to think it meant, 95 litres for the whole bottle, and 30 litres for 1/3 or something. Oh well, whats done is done. See any adverse permanent effects from using too much seafoam? Within reason of course

11-04-2009, 06:35 PM	#35
BansheeRideR350 Property of GAOC Join Date: Sep 08, 2008 Member Number: 27495 Location: Florida Name: JON Sex: M Model Year: 1999 Car: Pontiac Grand AM SE Engine: 2.4L Twin Cam L4	I use the whole can in my galant and my GA with no sputtering... Did you leave the negative disconnected for 10 mins then try it...i think if the ecm had an issue with the new sensor it would have tossed a code already..if this doesn't work just wait until that gas is gone and see if it does it with out the seafoam although i never had an issue using the whole can before. __________________

11-04-2009, 07:02 PM	#36
Jamesc Frequent Poster Join Date: Aug 25, 2009 Member Number: 32101 Location: Ontario Name: James Age: 24 Sex: M Model Year: 1995 Car: Pontiac Grand Am SE Engine: 2.3L Quad4 DOHC	Yea I planned on waiting until the next tank to do anything. The idle is smooth as butter now tho, does seem to 'die down' a little bit tho, as compared to before. Was at a long stop light today with the car at about 185 Fahrenheit (Built up temp from idling) and the car just sat there, purring very gently, seems great. Car drops to roughly 165 Fahrenheit while driving, no difference from the 90 Degree fahrenheit weather to the current 40-50 While installing the new spark plug boots, I did notice the far right cylinder spark plug (when facing the engine from the front of the car) had oil on it, not a whole lot, and the little.. bay.. down where my sparkplugs are does have a fair bit of oil... I cleaned up a good portion of it only leaving some on the surfaces for rust. Perhaps the old cracked/disintegrated boots/wires had leaked a little bit? I installed the new boots/wires by clipping them first into the aluminum covering plate, and dropping it straight down onto the spark plugs. Last edited by Jamesc; 11-04-2009 at 07:05 PM.

11-04-2009, 07:12 PM	#37
BansheeRideR350 Property of GAOC Join Date: Sep 08, 2008 Member Number: 27495 Location: Florida Name: JON Sex: M Model Year: 1999 Car: Pontiac Grand AM SE Engine: 2.4L Twin Cam L4	I wouldn't worry about the little bit of oil just make sure the plugs are torqued properly. The 165* reading may just be from the cold weather as i mentioned already im really not sure, but with the temp climbing up to 185 while sitting still makes me think the thermo is fine. __________________

11-04-2009, 07:56 PM	#38
Jamesc Frequent Poster Join Date: Aug 25, 2009 Member Number: 32101 Location: Ontario Name: James Age: 24 Sex: M Model Year: 1995 Car: Pontiac Grand Am SE Engine: 2.3L Quad4 DOHC	just returned from a friends house, had to park on a good 14-16 degree angled hill, facing up the hill. Got back in car and started it up, still was pretty close to operating temp. Put it in drive and it started to sputter fairly bad, i was lightly tapping the accelerator, it almost died but then with bit more gas drove like normal. Question, on normal startup should I see my CEL Light come on for a second or so? I've never even SEEN the CEL come on, not once that I can recall. I've had the light that is the outline of an engine come on, but never the one with that outline -and- the words 'Check Engine'. Is the outline of the motor my CEL? If not then I'm wondering if my CEL bulb is burnt out, although I would figure my mechanic would have noticed that? Last edited by Jamesc; 11-04-2009 at 07:59 PM.

11-04-2009, 08:14 PM	#39
BansheeRideR350 Property of GAOC Join Date: Sep 08, 2008 Member Number: 27495 Location: Florida Name: JON Sex: M Model Year: 1999 Car: Pontiac Grand AM SE Engine: 2.4L Twin Cam L4	As for your original question yes as long as it goes off after the initial light up then thats normal. For your second question... the outline of the engine is your CEL. __________________

11-04-2009, 08:37 PM	#40
Jamesc Frequent Poster Join Date: Aug 25, 2009 Member Number: 32101 Location: Ontario Name: James Age: 24 Sex: M Model Year: 1995 Car: Pontiac Grand Am SE Engine: 2.3L Quad4 DOHC	Aha. I wish that I had known the outline was the CEL light. It's flashed on before, my car would feel like my tranny had locked up or something, happens once in a great while and goes away when I let off the gas completely and then accelerate. Popped my CEL light on but only comes on when that happens. It's happened maybe 3-5 times, figured its just an old car and everything doesnt 'sync up' sometimes.